Couple of Artillerys on Gunbroker - Page 2

George Anderson · 09-13-2002, 04:38 PM

I have 12 LP08's all of which are matching and five of which are complete rigs. I need to call my insurance agent and increase the coverage. I had valued an excellent Erfurt 1914 at $1500 tops.

Edward Tinker · 09-13-2002, 05:20 PM

Hey Jim and others, evidently Gunbroker uses a 15 minute rule, if there are any bids the last 15 minutes, then they UP the time allowed, so this is great for sellers and a bit of a not so great for buyers. (Hopefully that'll happen to the Swiss Rifle I have up this week?)

Thor · 09-13-2002, 05:23 PM

That was fun to watch! I got over 60 bids on my Luger today, most from the same guy, its a buyers frenzy today! http://gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=5340706

Doubs · 09-13-2002, 05:33 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Thor:
<strong>That was fun to watch! I got over 60 bids on my Luger today, most from the same guy, its a buyers frenzy today!</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's a beautiful Luger you sold. I can see why someone would pay $1,000 for it.

Big Norm · 09-13-2002, 07:29 PM

I have 14 arties but only 4 with matching board and mag. (I'm not big on holsters) I looks like maybe I should take a look at some of my spares. (I know of a certain Loewes Borchardt that I could use the extra change to try for) I was surprised that the Erfurt went for more money than the DWM. The DWM MAY have an original mag. But I hope that both gentlemen enjoy their shooting. Arties are a fun shoot.
Big Norm

markm3 · 09-13-2002, 10:15 PM

I was the buyer (well, sort of) of the mismatched Erfurt on Gun Broker, for $1,402.00, and don't laugh so hard. There is more laughing to come. I know an older gentleman here who wants an Artillery so badly he can taste it, and didn't know where to look. He has an old unit marked 1908 second issue, and wanted an artillery as well. When Ed told us about these two on Gun Broker, I printed them out and showed him the photos, thinking I was doing him a kindness.

He is not internet-savvy, and asked me to bid for him, which I did. I referred him to Ralph's site, gave him a few other tips, and counseled him on price. My advice was not a penny more than $1,000. Once he saw the photo of the Erfurt, he was determined to have it. Now for the insane part. His high bid, in case he needed it, and I thought he might: $1,900.00

He wanted to go as high as $2,000.00, and I refused. Hell, I was tempted to sell him my matching 1914 DWM for $1,400.00, but I'm not that nice. Finally, I gave in.

Seriously, folks, there are no more good deals on artilleries. I have been watching these auctions for a couple of years, and it is depressing. Nothing goes for less than $1,300 or so, and every time I query a seller who has an absurd reserve, I get something like "Ralph Shattuck prices Artilleries in his book for a minimum of $1,300." Sure enough, he does. The minimum listed for a 1914 Erfurt, presumably mismatched, is $1,300. People are using this as a gauge, and pricing and bidding accordingly. The topper is that outrageous 15 minute rule. I could have gotten him that thing for a few hundred bucks less, but every time it would end, with three seconds left it seemed, some character named Josie Wales or another named Porsche 42 would bid again. It was like an Ottoman bazaar. Lucy Josie and Porsche gave up, or the poor guy wold have paid a hair under 2 grand for a mismatched artillery.

The problem, aside from artillery hysteria, is the dearth of good ones. After all, who among us is willing to sell his matched artillery? There just isn't that much out there that is good for under $2,000.00, and that is a psychological hurdle a lot of people just won't make. Personally, I have one, and have no intention of purchasing another until I see a complete rig, and I'll pay real money for that. What depresses me is that this is a shooter, nothing more (if that), and he won't shoot it! Maybe I'll borrow it from him and see if it works.

Thanks for listening to my rant.

Edward Tinker · 09-13-2002, 10:29 PM

I love to go to regular auctions, but more than once, I have suckered myself into wanting something soooo bad, that I HAD TO HAVE IT. E-bay can be bad enough, but gun auctions would be the death of me. [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

So Markm3, it is only money and if it makes him happy [img]smile.gif[/img]

markm3 · 09-13-2002, 11:07 PM

He is happy as a clam. And upon reflection, I'm happy for him. Now, if I can get him to take it out and shoot it! I just love plinking away with mine. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Big Norm · 09-16-2002, 12:30 AM

Markm3,
if only I had known... Often, I had bought a nice arty only to find a nice one with a matching mag and/or matching mag with a matching stock at a good price. Then there are the guns I bought because the price was rediculously low... So now I have two or more of them. The same goes for navies. I have a hard time refusing a fair priced or bargain navy, so I have an accumulation of them. But with the prices going up on them faster than my stocks on the stock market, I am reluctant to part with my spares.

By the way, is your 1914 DWM a chamber dated, 1914 DWM LP-08? Also, You will have a hard time finding an artillery with a matching mag and original stock. People have gone crazy on those things.

Finally, its interesting to hear that Shattucks prices are being quoted. Most people used to quote Simpsons prices. It also amazes me to see people trying to sell their beat up Lugers for mint prices. They think that just because their Lugers are matching that they are mint condition.
Big Norm

Big Norm · 09-16-2002, 12:43 AM

sorry for the double post. The internet cut me off just as I was posting, and I got all screwed up.
Big Norm

John Sabato · 09-16-2002, 09:40 AM

That's Okay Big Norm... I fixed them double posts for ya... I'm just glad it isn't your Lugers that are doubling... they are much harder to repair and might even require replacement parts... [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Big Norm · 09-16-2002, 02:34 PM

Thanks a lot John for fixing my error. Your right about the Luger fixing up and my searching for parts. But a few weeks ago I took a couple of artilleries to the range. There was a scout master there with some Boy Scouts. With the permission of the range master and the scout master, I allowed those kids to shoot a few rounds through my artilleries. I then explained a little bit about my guns and the kids were real interested. When I got home, I felt that all that work I have done collecting Lugers was well worth it. It isn't often that I get to feel that good about my collecting.
Big Norm

John Sabato · 09-16-2002, 03:14 PM

Norm,

That is EXACTLY the kind of pro-gun public relations that this community needs... who knows? there may be a new budding Brandon among the boys you treated to firing a classic WW1 Luger pistol!

Good Job!

Doubs · 09-16-2002, 03:22 PM

Norm, I join John in applauding your good-will building with the Scouts. It may be a cliche but it's also the truth: They are our future! My son and daughter-in-law (a "By Gawd" West Virginian) have no hangups where guns are concerned and I don't expect my grandchildren will either. I just wish all families felt the same way. Maybe your efforts with the Scouts will make the difference for a few more young men.

markm3 · 09-16-2002, 08:45 PM

By the way, is your 1914 DWM a chamber dated, 1914 DWM LP-08? Also, You will have a hard time finding an artillery with a matching mag and original stock. People have gone crazy on those things.

Norm, it is indeed a chamber dated 1914 DWM LP-08. The magazine does not match, and it has no stock. It has a beautiful contemporary holster, but have no way of knowing whether they are a matched set.

Another nice story. I took the Artillery out for a few shots at the range Sunday, and a crowd gathered very quickly. We had a few teenagers around us, and while their interest was encouraging, I must say I was more than a little appalled at how little they knew of World War II, let alone the Great War. What are they teaching these folks in school?

wterrell · 09-16-2002, 09:36 PM

Big Norm,

I never did hear how the disassembly of your Borchardt came out. Were you able to tear it down and put it back together OK?

Big Norm · 09-17-2002, 04:21 AM

Thanks for the compliments regarding the scouts. It was just one of those things that just happened. I had just finished test firing a couple of artilleries that I had just bought. The pistol and rifle range where just about empty and these scouts were firing some 22 rifles. So I just opened my big mouth and asked if any of the scouts wanted to shoot a real Luger. I had to watch the range master because some ranges don't allow pistol shooting on the rifle range and visa versa. But the range was empty and everybody (including the range master and the scout master) got at least two shots.

Wes,
I have not had the chance to experiment with the Borchardt yet. Some medical problems with my prostrate and the closing sale on some real estate next week have kept me busy. Now, I have some small game hunting to do and then some deer hunting. Then Heinz and I are working on a pamphlet about the 1904 navy Luger. He is translating some old German print in a pamphlet that I bought on ebay and I want to copy cat it to an English version. I suspect that sometime this winter things will settle down and I will take a shot at the Borchardt along with that Johnny Walker Black that had mentioned to you earlier.

Markm3,
Nice going with your 1914 DWM LP08. They are real, hard to find treasures. I looked for one for years and then, all of a sudden, BAM!, three of them came up. The first one was an expensive birthday present to myself, the second one was for trade bait and the third one was just something so cheap that I could not turn it down.

You are right about people not knowing much about WW1. I have some excellent books on tape about that war. They are long, but I take them deer hunting with me and listen to them in my blind. They keep me from freezing to death or falling asleep. Very few people know why it started and how it ended. Right now I am trying to read the autobiography of Kaiser Wilhelm II amd then I want to read a book I have on the Von Moltke family. The Kaisers book is a bummer because it was written by some British guy who uses a lot of slang or old British terms and that throws me off tempo.
Big Norm

09-13-2002, 05:20 PM	#22
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Hey Jim and others, evidently Gunbroker uses a 15 minute rule, if there are any bids the last 15 minutes, then they UP the time allowed, so this is great for sellers and a bit of a not so great for buyers. (Hopefully that'll happen to the Swiss Rifle I have up this week?) __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-13-2002, 05:23 PM	#23
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	That was fun to watch! I got over 60 bids on my Luger today, most from the same guy, its a buyers frenzy today! http://gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=5340706 __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

09-13-2002, 10:15 PM	#26
markm3 User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 59 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I was the buyer (well, sort of) of the mismatched Erfurt on Gun Broker, for $1,402.00, and don't laugh so hard. There is more laughing to come. I know an older gentleman here who wants an Artillery so badly he can taste it, and didn't know where to look. He has an old unit marked 1908 second issue, and wanted an artillery as well. When Ed told us about these two on Gun Broker, I printed them out and showed him the photos, thinking I was doing him a kindness. He is not internet-savvy, and asked me to bid for him, which I did. I referred him to Ralph's site, gave him a few other tips, and counseled him on price. My advice was not a penny more than $1,000. Once he saw the photo of the Erfurt, he was determined to have it. Now for the insane part. His high bid, in case he needed it, and I thought he might: $1,900.00 He wanted to go as high as $2,000.00, and I refused. Hell, I was tempted to sell him my matching 1914 DWM for $1,400.00, but I'm not that nice. Finally, I gave in. Seriously, folks, there are no more good deals on artilleries. I have been watching these auctions for a couple of years, and it is depressing. Nothing goes for less than $1,300 or so, and every time I query a seller who has an absurd reserve, I get something like "Ralph Shattuck prices Artilleries in his book for a minimum of $1,300." Sure enough, he does. The minimum listed for a 1914 Erfurt, presumably mismatched, is $1,300. People are using this as a gauge, and pricing and bidding accordingly. The topper is that outrageous 15 minute rule. I could have gotten him that thing for a few hundred bucks less, but every time it would end, with three seconds left it seemed, some character named Josie Wales or another named Porsche 42 would bid again. It was like an Ottoman bazaar. Lucy Josie and Porsche gave up, or the poor guy wold have paid a hair under 2 grand for a mismatched artillery. The problem, aside from artillery hysteria, is the dearth of good ones. After all, who among us is willing to sell his matched artillery? There just isn't that much out there that is good for under $2,000.00, and that is a psychological hurdle a lot of people just won't make. Personally, I have one, and have no intention of purchasing another until I see a complete rig, and I'll pay real money for that. What depresses me is that this is a shooter, nothing more (if that), and he won't shoot it! Maybe I'll borrow it from him and see if it works. Thanks for listening to my rant. __________________ markm3

09-13-2002, 10:29 PM	#27
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	I love to go to regular auctions, but more than once, I have suckered myself into wanting something soooo bad, that I HAD TO HAVE IT. E-bay can be bad enough, but gun auctions would be the death of me. [img]biggrin.gif[/img] So Markm3, it is only money and if it makes him happy [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-13-2002, 11:07 PM	#28
markm3 User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 59 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	He is happy as a clam. And upon reflection, I'm happy for him. Now, if I can get him to take it out and shoot it! I just love plinking away with mine. [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ markm3

09-13-2002, 04:38 PM	#21
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,769 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	I have 12 LP08's all of which are matching and five of which are complete rigs. I need to call my insurance agent and increase the coverage. I had valued an excellent Erfurt 1914 at $1500 tops.

09-13-2002, 05:33 PM	#24
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by Thor: <strong>That was fun to watch! I got over 60 bids on my Luger today, most from the same guy, its a buyers frenzy today!</strong><hr></blockquote> That's a beautiful Luger you sold. I can see why someone would pay $1,000 for it.

09-13-2002, 07:29 PM	#25
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	I have 14 arties but only 4 with matching board and mag. (I'm not big on holsters) I looks like maybe I should take a look at some of my spares. (I know of a certain Loewes Borchardt that I could use the extra change to try for) I was surprised that the Erfurt went for more money than the DWM. The DWM MAY have an original mag. But I hope that both gentlemen enjoy their shooting. Arties are a fun shoot. Big Norm

09-16-2002, 12:30 AM	#29
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Markm3, if only I had known... Often, I had bought a nice arty only to find a nice one with a matching mag and/or matching mag with a matching stock at a good price. Then there are the guns I bought because the price was rediculously low... So now I have two or more of them. The same goes for navies. I have a hard time refusing a fair priced or bargain navy, so I have an accumulation of them. But with the prices going up on them faster than my stocks on the stock market, I am reluctant to part with my spares. By the way, is your 1914 DWM a chamber dated, 1914 DWM LP-08? Also, You will have a hard time finding an artillery with a matching mag and original stock. People have gone crazy on those things. Finally, its interesting to hear that Shattucks prices are being quoted. Most people used to quote Simpsons prices. It also amazes me to see people trying to sell their beat up Lugers for mint prices. They think that just because their Lugers are matching that they are mint condition. Big Norm

09-16-2002, 12:43 AM	#30
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	sorry for the double post. The internet cut me off just as I was posting, and I got all screwed up. Big Norm

09-16-2002, 09:40 AM	#31
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	That's Okay Big Norm... I fixed them double posts for ya... I'm just glad it isn't your Lugers that are doubling... they are much harder to repair and might even require replacement parts... [img]biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-16-2002, 02:34 PM	#32
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Thanks a lot John for fixing my error. Your right about the Luger fixing up and my searching for parts. But a few weeks ago I took a couple of artilleries to the range. There was a scout master there with some Boy Scouts. With the permission of the range master and the scout master, I allowed those kids to shoot a few rounds through my artilleries. I then explained a little bit about my guns and the kids were real interested. When I got home, I felt that all that work I have done collecting Lugers was well worth it. It isn't often that I get to feel that good about my collecting. Big Norm

09-16-2002, 03:14 PM	#33
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Norm, That is EXACTLY the kind of pro-gun public relations that this community needs... who knows? there may be a new budding Brandon among the boys you treated to firing a classic WW1 Luger pistol! Good Job! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-16-2002, 03:22 PM	#34
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	Norm, I join John in applauding your good-will building with the Scouts. It may be a cliche but it's also the truth: They are our future! My son and daughter-in-law (a "By Gawd" West Virginian) have no hangups where guns are concerned and I don't expect my grandchildren will either. I just wish all families felt the same way. Maybe your efforts with the Scouts will make the difference for a few more young men.

09-16-2002, 08:45 PM	#35
markm3 User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 59 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	By the way, is your 1914 DWM a chamber dated, 1914 DWM LP-08? Also, You will have a hard time finding an artillery with a matching mag and original stock. People have gone crazy on those things. Norm, it is indeed a chamber dated 1914 DWM LP-08. The magazine does not match, and it has no stock. It has a beautiful contemporary holster, but have no way of knowing whether they are a matched set. Another nice story. I took the Artillery out for a few shots at the range Sunday, and a crowd gathered very quickly. We had a few teenagers around us, and while their interest was encouraging, I must say I was more than a little appalled at how little they knew of World War II, let alone the Great War. What are they teaching these folks in school? __________________ markm3

09-16-2002, 09:36 PM	#36
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Big Norm, I never did hear how the disassembly of your Borchardt came out. Were you able to tear it down and put it back together OK? __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

09-17-2002, 04:21 AM	#37
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Thanks for the compliments regarding the scouts. It was just one of those things that just happened. I had just finished test firing a couple of artilleries that I had just bought. The pistol and rifle range where just about empty and these scouts were firing some 22 rifles. So I just opened my big mouth and asked if any of the scouts wanted to shoot a real Luger. I had to watch the range master because some ranges don't allow pistol shooting on the rifle range and visa versa. But the range was empty and everybody (including the range master and the scout master) got at least two shots. Wes, I have not had the chance to experiment with the Borchardt yet. Some medical problems with my prostrate and the closing sale on some real estate next week have kept me busy. Now, I have some small game hunting to do and then some deer hunting. Then Heinz and I are working on a pamphlet about the 1904 navy Luger. He is translating some old German print in a pamphlet that I bought on ebay and I want to copy cat it to an English version. I suspect that sometime this winter things will settle down and I will take a shot at the Borchardt along with that Johnny Walker Black that had mentioned to you earlier. Markm3, Nice going with your 1914 DWM LP08. They are real, hard to find treasures. I looked for one for years and then, all of a sudden, BAM!, three of them came up. The first one was an expensive birthday present to myself, the second one was for trade bait and the third one was just something so cheap that I could not turn it down. You are right about people not knowing much about WW1. I have some excellent books on tape about that war. They are long, but I take them deer hunting with me and listen to them in my blind. They keep me from freezing to death or falling asleep. Very few people know why it started and how it ended. Right now I am trying to read the autobiography of Kaiser Wilhelm II amd then I want to read a book I have on the Von Moltke family. The Kaisers book is a bummer because it was written by some British guy who uses a lot of slang or old British terms and that throws me off tempo. Big Norm