Artillery Luger Help!

jagdterrier · 12-23-2002, 03:07 PM

I have an DWM 1917 Artillery luger. It has been in my family 60+ years. It is suppose to be a WWI bring back. It has 9s in the grips. They are about 42mm long and 20mm wide. The longest serial # I can find is 3 digits and begins with a 6. the last two digits are on all the other parts. There is a fully adjustable sight on the barrel. On the right side of the barrel/receiver there are 4 emblems, I can't tell what the first three are but the last looks like an eagle with out-stretched wings wearing a crown. Going by memory the 9s look like the ones on the luger on page 29 of Bulls "WEAPONS OF THE 20TH CENTURY". Unfortunately I am not able to post pics. Any info would be appreciated. william

Edward Tinker · 12-23-2002, 03:16 PM

William, you made it!

There are some experts on here that should be able to help you. I love the Artillery model, have a 1914 Erfurt.

The 3 serial number is acceptable, each year they started over with numbers, there were approx 90,000 long barrel (artillery) and short barrels made that year (serial numbers ran consecutive). Although Jan's lowest serial number recorded is 248, so you have one of the older ones for that year.

Doubs · 12-23-2002, 03:29 PM

I'd like to add that Luger grips with the "9" carved into them are not common. The numbers are likley painted red and there's some question why Luger grips were so marked. The military-issue Broomhandle Mausers in 9mm had grips with the red "9" to distinguish them from the more common 7.63mm Mausers. Military Lugers in the German Imperial Army should all be 9mm so issue of incorrect ammunition would not have been a problem.

If your three digit serial number doesn't have a suffix letter under it on the frame of the pistol, your Artillery will have been one of the very first made in 1917. If it's been in the family 60+ years, you have an heirloom in the making. It's a great pistol and knowing something of it's history can only enhance the value to your family.

jagdterrier · 12-23-2002, 04:05 PM

Just the 3 #s. Mentioning family hierloom makes me feel guilty. I have had it in the back of my mind for a while to trade for something I really want. Does anyone know of a dealer in VA that I could take it to to have it apraised? BTW, this isn't a post fishing for offers. I have had it for over 10 yrs and will probably hold onto it for a good while longer as when I do trade I want to make sure it is something that I really want that I am sure that there will be absolutely no regrets over. thanks again for all responses. william

Edward Tinker · 12-23-2002, 04:26 PM

Artilleries go from $700 up to around $1200 and then up depending on rarity and magic potion of all, Condition.

So, pictures posting of it could get a lot better idea of what it is worth. {I am on the other side of the ole USA, so.., but there are other collectors in that area, I don't personanlly know any dealers over yonder...}

On previous postings of artilleryÃ¢??s, they sometimes don't have matching numbers, bad rust, were in almost mint shape, were not artilleryÃ¢??s to start off with (long barrels placed on them later). So, my point is, that if anything is wrong with it, the collector value drops off dramatically and others are interested only in it as a "shooter".

I am sure many would be interested in hearing what you are looking for as a trade? [img]biggrin.gif[/img] Some of us have guns or other items that maybe would make good trading material back at ya? [img]smile.gif[/img]

jagdterrier · 12-23-2002, 04:43 PM

Forgot to mention that on top of the barrel it has 1917 along with DWM. Mine is probably not worth a bunch even though it all seems to match the outside shows much use. Mechanically it seems to be in very good shape. the few times I shot it the groups were amazing.

Man, these lugers are complicated fireams. I will try to get a pic up sometime in the future ( I am computer challenged [img]biggrin.gif[/img] )

If someone from eastern VA wants to look at it I can bring it to the next Richmond or Hampton gunshow. I would love to find out all the info I can.

Thanks .... william

George Anderson · 12-23-2002, 07:06 PM

Jagdterrier, I have sent you a private message.

jagdterrier · 07-04-2003, 02:58 PM

Still trying to find someone in eastern VA that could look at it and give me a rough idea of the value. I don't want to ask too much but then again I wouldn't want o let it go for way less than the value. Any help would be appreciated.

Still can't do those darn pics

Pete Ebbink · 07-04-2003, 03:20 PM

Hello William,

If you send your jpegs as an attachment to an e-mail to me at "pebbink@pacbell.net", I would be happy to upload and post them for you in this message thread.

It is not hard to do yourself, but takes a little practice...

Once folks see this piece in photos, I am sure you will get some reasonable offers to buy this LP-08 via the Private Message utility of the Luger Forum...

You might also want to consider keeping this piece in the family...since it's been in your family for some time...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

mauro · 07-04-2003, 05:30 PM

William,
please look at my web site where you can find an article concerning LP08 and also several pictures.
Ciao
Mauro

jagdterrier · 07-04-2003, 05:43 PM

Thanks P.E I will probably take you up on that. I will take some pics( have to have them developed as no digital) and scan them in.

mauro, I don't know if its my computer but none of the pictures on your sight would load.

Thanks for the replies.

Thor · 07-04-2003, 05:44 PM

ah.........Artillery Lugers!! <a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/MM1914Erfurt1.JPG" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/MM1914Erfurt1.JPG" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/red9grips.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/red9grips.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Edward Tinker · 07-04-2003, 05:51 PM

william,

You are welcome to send hard copy pictures to myself or to Pete's house and we would scan them in for you. The more, clearer and detailed the better,

Ed

mauro · 07-05-2003, 03:25 PM

William,
also Thor is not able to see correctly my web site. I guess that your computer is not correctly updated. Try to update your Explorer using Windows Update, in this way your computer will be updated with the last "items" made by Mr. Gates.
In any case I will send you a copy of the article available on my site. I have written this article few months ago for an Italian Gun Magazine (of course I send you the traslation into English).
Please provide my your email address and I will sent it asap.
Ciao

Big Norm · 07-05-2003, 03:40 PM

The "Red Nine" grips are real collector grips. They were originally put on early commercial lugers during the transition from 30 cal to the now famous 9mm. Over time, they were moved from one type of Luger to another by individuals because they simply looked cool. There is some indication that they may have been put on Weimar Era commercial Lugers to differential 30 cal from 9mm during that period. But they are still collectible and desirable.

Artillery Lugers will go from $500 to $2000 depending on a number of factors. The year of the chamber top (in your case 1917), condition (very much like coin collecting) and matching serial numbers on all parts including magazines and grips.

But some dates are more valuable than others. A chamber dated 1914 DWM will sell for more than a chamber dated 1917 because of scarcity. A very nice chamber dated 1914 DWM artillery could go for as much as $5500. Maybe more. Rare items are always hard to price.

Then we get into the accessories. An artillery Luger with an original stock, numbered to the Luger and an artillery holster with all the attaching leather and straps with an appropriate date and manufacturer will pull the price up much higher. Again, the condition of the holster and straps are important.

Personally, I consider an artillery Luger with all matched parts and matching stock, grips and magazine as a rig. Add an appropriate holster with all the attaching leather and straps and I call that a full rig. Add a Trommel (snail drum) magazine with a loader and I will call that ... OUTRAGEOUS!!! (Personal emphasis added.) Of course, the price will be adjusted accoringly. Homes, yachts and gold bars accepted.
Big Norm

jagdterrier · 08-29-2003, 04:59 PM

Finally have pics!

P. Ebbink, if that offer still stands I will e-mail the pics for you to post. Thanks....william

Pete Ebbink · 08-29-2003, 05:16 PM

William,

Yes, if you send me your photo-jpeg files, I will create in Member's Gallery a photo study of your 1917 Artillery for you.

Placing them there allows for photo files bigger than 180 KB to be posted, as is the limit if I just post your photos in this discussion thread.

My home e-mail is : pebbink@pacbell.net

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Aaron · 08-29-2003, 06:04 PM

Since you appear to have a scanner, you could actually scan an image of your Luger and get it posted.

jagdterrier · 08-29-2003, 06:13 PM

I have the pictures on a kodak CD.

Edward Tinker · 08-29-2003, 06:24 PM

Send them to Pete or me,

Ed

12-23-2002, 03:07 PM	#1
jagdterrier User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Artillery Luger Help! I have an DWM 1917 Artillery luger. It has been in my family 60+ years. It is suppose to be a WWI bring back. It has 9s in the grips. They are about 42mm long and 20mm wide. The longest serial # I can find is 3 digits and begins with a 6. the last two digits are on all the other parts. There is a fully adjustable sight on the barrel. On the right side of the barrel/receiver there are 4 emblems, I can't tell what the first three are but the last looks like an eagle with out-stretched wings wearing a crown. Going by memory the 9s look like the ones on the luger on page 29 of Bulls "WEAPONS OF THE 20TH CENTURY". Unfortunately I am not able to post pics. Any info would be appreciated. william

12-23-2002, 03:16 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	William, you made it! There are some experts on here that should be able to help you. I love the Artillery model, have a 1914 Erfurt. The 3 serial number is acceptable, each year they started over with numbers, there were approx 90,000 long barrel (artillery) and short barrels made that year (serial numbers ran consecutive). Although Jan's lowest serial number recorded is 248, so you have one of the older ones for that year. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-23-2002, 04:26 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Artilleries go from $700 up to around $1200 and then up depending on rarity and magic potion of all, Condition. So, pictures posting of it could get a lot better idea of what it is worth. {I am on the other side of the ole USA, so.., but there are other collectors in that area, I don't personanlly know any dealers over yonder...} On previous postings of artilleryÃ¢??s, they sometimes don't have matching numbers, bad rust, were in almost mint shape, were not artilleryÃ¢??s to start off with (long barrels placed on them later). So, my point is, that if anything is wrong with it, the collector value drops off dramatically and others are interested only in it as a "shooter". I am sure many would be interested in hearing what you are looking for as a trade? [img]biggrin.gif[/img] Some of us have guns or other items that maybe would make good trading material back at ya? [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-04-2003, 05:30 PM	#10
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	William, please look at my web site where you can find an article concerning LP08 and also several pictures. Ciao Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

07-04-2003, 05:44 PM	#12
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	ah.........Artillery Lugers!! <a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/MM1914Erfurt1.JPG" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/MM1914Erfurt1.JPG" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/red9grips.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/red9grips.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

12-23-2002, 03:29 PM	#3
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	I'd like to add that Luger grips with the "9" carved into them are not common. The numbers are likley painted red and there's some question why Luger grips were so marked. The military-issue Broomhandle Mausers in 9mm had grips with the red "9" to distinguish them from the more common 7.63mm Mausers. Military Lugers in the German Imperial Army should all be 9mm so issue of incorrect ammunition would not have been a problem. If your three digit serial number doesn't have a suffix letter under it on the frame of the pistol, your Artillery will have been one of the very first made in 1917. If it's been in the family 60+ years, you have an heirloom in the making. It's a great pistol and knowing something of it's history can only enhance the value to your family.

12-23-2002, 04:05 PM	#4
jagdterrier User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Just the 3 #s. Mentioning family hierloom makes me feel guilty. I have had it in the back of my mind for a while to trade for something I really want. Does anyone know of a dealer in VA that I could take it to to have it apraised? BTW, this isn't a post fishing for offers. I have had it for over 10 yrs and will probably hold onto it for a good while longer as when I do trade I want to make sure it is something that I really want that I am sure that there will be absolutely no regrets over. thanks again for all responses. william

12-23-2002, 04:43 PM	#6
jagdterrier User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Forgot to mention that on top of the barrel it has 1917 along with DWM. Mine is probably not worth a bunch even though it all seems to match the outside shows much use. Mechanically it seems to be in very good shape. the few times I shot it the groups were amazing. Man, these lugers are complicated fireams. I will try to get a pic up sometime in the future ( I am computer challenged [img]biggrin.gif[/img] ) If someone from eastern VA wants to look at it I can bring it to the next Richmond or Hampton gunshow. I would love to find out all the info I can. Thanks .... william

12-23-2002, 07:06 PM	#7
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,769 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Jagdterrier, I have sent you a private message.

07-04-2003, 02:58 PM	#8
jagdterrier User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Still trying to find someone in eastern VA that could look at it and give me a rough idea of the value. I don't want to ask too much but then again I wouldn't want o let it go for way less than the value. Any help would be appreciated. Still can't do those darn pics

07-04-2003, 03:20 PM	#9
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello William, If you send your jpegs as an attachment to an e-mail to me at "pebbink@pacbell.net", I would be happy to upload and post them for you in this message thread. It is not hard to do yourself, but takes a little practice... Once folks see this piece in photos, I am sure you will get some reasonable offers to buy this LP-08 via the Private Message utility of the Luger Forum... You might also want to consider keeping this piece in the family...since it's been in your family for some time... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

07-04-2003, 05:43 PM	#11
jagdterrier User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks P.E I will probably take you up on that. I will take some pics( have to have them developed as no digital) and scan them in. mauro, I don't know if its my computer but none of the pictures on your sight would load. Thanks for the replies.

07-04-2003, 05:51 PM	#13
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	william, You are welcome to send hard copy pictures to myself or to Pete's house and we would scan them in for you. The more, clearer and detailed the better, Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-05-2003, 03:25 PM	#14
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	William, also Thor is not able to see correctly my web site. I guess that your computer is not correctly updated. Try to update your Explorer using Windows Update, in this way your computer will be updated with the last "items" made by Mr. Gates. In any case I will send you a copy of the article available on my site. I have written this article few months ago for an Italian Gun Magazine (of course I send you the traslation into English). Please provide my your email address and I will sent it asap. Ciao __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

07-05-2003, 03:40 PM	#15
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	The "Red Nine" grips are real collector grips. They were originally put on early commercial lugers during the transition from 30 cal to the now famous 9mm. Over time, they were moved from one type of Luger to another by individuals because they simply looked cool. There is some indication that they may have been put on Weimar Era commercial Lugers to differential 30 cal from 9mm during that period. But they are still collectible and desirable. Artillery Lugers will go from $500 to $2000 depending on a number of factors. The year of the chamber top (in your case 1917), condition (very much like coin collecting) and matching serial numbers on all parts including magazines and grips. But some dates are more valuable than others. A chamber dated 1914 DWM will sell for more than a chamber dated 1917 because of scarcity. A very nice chamber dated 1914 DWM artillery could go for as much as $5500. Maybe more. Rare items are always hard to price. Then we get into the accessories. An artillery Luger with an original stock, numbered to the Luger and an artillery holster with all the attaching leather and straps with an appropriate date and manufacturer will pull the price up much higher. Again, the condition of the holster and straps are important. Personally, I consider an artillery Luger with all matched parts and matching stock, grips and magazine as a rig. Add an appropriate holster with all the attaching leather and straps and I call that a full rig. Add a Trommel (snail drum) magazine with a loader and I will call that ... OUTRAGEOUS!!! (Personal emphasis added.) Of course, the price will be adjusted accoringly. Homes, yachts and gold bars accepted. Big Norm

08-29-2003, 04:59 PM	#16
jagdterrier User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Finally have pics! P. Ebbink, if that offer still stands I will e-mail the pics for you to post. Thanks....william

08-29-2003, 05:16 PM	#17
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	William, Yes, if you send me your photo-jpeg files, I will create in Member's Gallery a photo study of your 1917 Artillery for you. Placing them there allows for photo files bigger than 180 KB to be posted, as is the limit if I just post your photos in this discussion thread. My home e-mail is : pebbink@pacbell.net Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

08-29-2003, 06:04 PM	#18
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Since you appear to have a scanner, you could actually scan an image of your Luger and get it posted.

08-29-2003, 06:13 PM	#19
jagdterrier User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have the pictures on a kodak CD.

08-29-2003, 06:24 PM	#20
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Send them to Pete or me, Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV