Looking for help with 1917 Artillery Luger

rfmusso · 11-26-2017, 12:13 AM

Hello
I recently acquired a Luger that was encased in a wooden presentation box and I've never seen anything like it.

From what I can tell it is a 1917 Artillery Luger with Serial Number 3541. The woodwork and the metal work is something I've never seen. All the parts I can see appear to match but are some kind of custom work.

More pictures are at the Imgur link below. Any help with what this is would be greatly appreciated.
https://imgur.com/a/LYqGP
Rob

sheepherder · 11-26-2017, 12:36 AM

Yes...Very tasteful...

Grip seems to have an aero motif...Isn't that a Blue Max at the end of the medals???

Worthy of a museum, for sure...

rfmusso · 11-26-2017, 12:47 AM

Yes, another part of the mystery - I don't even know where to start on how to determine if that is real. This whole set appears to be some kind of gift. The plaque on the case says (in German) In Honor of 22 Enemy Airplane Victories.

I have about 40 pictures of the whole set if you want to get a better picture of the medals at this link. https://imgur.com/a/LYqGP

sheepherder · 11-26-2017, 12:55 AM

Some craftsman sure spent a lot of time on the whole ensemble...

Robert, when you get a chance, please attach the pics to this thread so that future (and current) members can see and appreciate it. The pics at Imgur will get lost, and we have members here who can not view social sites like PhotoBucket, Imgur, SmugMug, etc.

It would be a shame to lose these pics.

I'm sure we would all like to hear 'the story' behind your obtaining this surely rare Luger...

rfmusso · 11-26-2017, 01:32 AM

I wish I knew more of the story. I just bought it from an 82 year old man who said he bought it from a friend many years ago who had some bad gambling debts. That friend said he bought it from the individual who brought it back from Germany without any real details.

I've included two more photos, the forum won't let me post more than 2 or 3 photos at a time. I'll see what I can figure out.

To add a further oddity, the pistol appears to have some kind of magnetic side to it. The magazines cling right to the frame of the pistol.

It is a very interesting piece and I wish I knew more. I’m deferring to the experts of this forum in the hopes you guys can point me in the right direction.

DonVoigt · 11-26-2017, 08:18 AM

I believe it is a one off fantasy item; not particularly well executed.

DavidJayUden · 11-26-2017, 08:29 AM

I have to ask:
Is that shoulder stock in violation of the GCA?
dju

kurusu · 11-26-2017, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Yes...Very distasteful...

Grip seems to have an aero motif...Isn't that a Blue Max at the end of the medals???

Worthy of a museum, for sure...

there. I've fixed for you.

George Anderson · 11-26-2017, 09:15 AM

Look at the stock lug. It was ground off in the US circa 1930. I's a WWI bring-back that was "pimped-up" with all the garish swastikas post WWII.

sheepherder · 11-26-2017, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Anderson

Look at the stock lug. It was ground off in the US circa 1930. I's a WWI bring-back that was "pimped-up" with all the garish swastikas post WWII.

I had noticed the screw in the lug but was too tired to realize what it signified...

I'm surprised that the thin metal of the backstrap would contain enough threads to actually hold that add-on lug and buttstock on. Maybe silver-soldered as well? Odd that the add-on lug wasn't 'blued' to match the rest of the gun...

Bill_in_VA · 11-26-2017, 10:01 AM

Medals are fantasy too - Imperial EKI with NSDAP cap eagle, poor fake RK with an HJ diamond (WTF???); poor fake PLM with an incorrect and also fake OLC - the list goes on. And the gun? Wow. So much wrong it’s hard to know where to begin.

As a fantasy item it makes for a really neat shooter; I’d haul it out to range for sure. But as a collector piece, or even an interesting historical piece it’s nil.

DavidJayUden · 11-26-2017, 02:18 PM

So I guess my question remains. Is that a legal pistol/stock combo? My initial reaction is that it is not.
dju

kurusu · 11-26-2017, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

So I guess my question remains. Is that a legal pistol/stock combo? My initial reaction is that it is not.
dju

That is a good lawyer case, I think. It was originally an artillery so the stock should be legal, but the stock lug was grinded, and then added, but it still is an artillery, of sorts.

George Anderson · 11-26-2017, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurusu

That is a good lawyer case, I think. It was originally an artillery so the stock should be legal, but the stock lug was grinded, and then added, but it still is an artillery, of sorts.

Mario, you are a victim of rational thought. The laws regarding the stock in the US are a result of irrational thought by the powers that are the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

DavidJayUden · 11-26-2017, 03:42 PM

"The laws regarding the stock in the US are a result of irrational thought by the powers that are the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms."

That may very well be true, however...
That is not an authentic pattern stock and is therefore illegal IMHO.
No different than putting an artillery stock on a Naval Luger.
dju

kurusu · 11-26-2017, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Anderson

Mario, you are a victim of rational thought. The laws regarding the stock in the US are a result of irrational thought by the powers that are the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

Always believed rational thought would be my undoing.

You are proving me right.

Edit. Alcohol; tobacco and firearms should never be in the same bureau.

George Anderson · 11-26-2017, 05:00 PM

Edit. Alcohol; tobacco and firearms should never be in the same bureau.

[/QUOTE]

Yes, yes. Alcohol and tobacco in the club house.

wlyon · 11-26-2017, 06:21 PM

I agree that it would be illegal to attach. Bill

DonVoigt · 11-26-2017, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

So I guess my question remains. Is that a legal pistol/stock combo? My initial reaction is that it is not.
dju

No question that attaching the stock would make an illegal short barreled rifle in the US; it could of course be registered by going through the paper work and paying the tax.

DavidJayUden · 11-26-2017, 10:46 PM

My only reason for posting this is that the seller and the buyer probably weren't aware of this silliness and may have paraded around a gun show in violation of federal law. And we all know where the BATF like to spend their weekends...
dju

11-26-2017, 12:13 AM	#1
rfmusso New User Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Looking for help with 1917 Artillery Luger Hello I recently acquired a Luger that was encased in a wooden presentation box and I've never seen anything like it. From what I can tell it is a 1917 Artillery Luger with Serial Number 3541. The woodwork and the metal work is something I've never seen. All the parts I can see appear to match but are some kind of custom work. More pictures are at the Imgur link below. Any help with what this is would be greatly appreciated. https://imgur.com/a/LYqGP Rob Attached Thumbnails

11-26-2017, 12:36 AM	#2
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,181 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,438 Times in 2,327 Posts	Yes...Very tasteful... Grip seems to have an aero motif...Isn't that a Blue Max at the end of the medals??? Worthy of a museum, for sure... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

11-26-2017, 12:55 AM	#4
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,181 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,438 Times in 2,327 Posts	Some craftsman sure spent a lot of time on the whole ensemble... Robert, when you get a chance, please attach the pics to this thread so that future (and current) members can see and appreciate it. The pics at Imgur will get lost, and we have members here who can not view social sites like PhotoBucket, Imgur, SmugMug, etc. It would be a shame to lose these pics. I'm sure we would all like to hear 'the story' behind your obtaining this surely rare Luger... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

11-26-2017, 01:32 AM	#5
rfmusso New User Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	I wish I knew more of the story. I just bought it from an 82 year old man who said he bought it from a friend many years ago who had some bad gambling debts. That friend said he bought it from the individual who brought it back from Germany without any real details. I've included two more photos, the forum won't let me post more than 2 or 3 photos at a time. I'll see what I can figure out. To add a further oddity, the pistol appears to have some kind of magnetic side to it. The magazines cling right to the frame of the pistol. It is a very interesting piece and I wish I knew more. I’m deferring to the experts of this forum in the hopes you guys can point me in the right direction. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by rfmusso; 11-26-2017 at 02:22 AM.

11-26-2017, 08:18 AM	#6
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	I believe it is a one off fantasy item; not particularly well executed. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

11-26-2017, 12:47 AM	#3
rfmusso New User Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Yes, another part of the mystery - I don't even know where to start on how to determine if that is real. This whole set appears to be some kind of gift. The plaque on the case says (in German) In Honor of 22 Enemy Airplane Victories. I have about 40 pictures of the whole set if you want to get a better picture of the medals at this link. https://imgur.com/a/LYqGP

11-26-2017, 08:29 AM	#7
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I have to ask: Is that shoulder stock in violation of the GCA? dju

11-26-2017, 09:15 AM	#9
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,769 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Look at the stock lug. It was ground off in the US circa 1930. I's a WWI bring-back that was "pimped-up" with all the garish swastikas post WWII.

11-26-2017, 10:01 AM	#11
Bill_in_VA User Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Southwest Virginia Posts: 343 Thanks: 731 Thanked 470 Times in 178 Posts	Medals are fantasy too - Imperial EKI with NSDAP cap eagle, poor fake RK with an HJ diamond (WTF???); poor fake PLM with an incorrect and also fake OLC - the list goes on. And the gun? Wow. So much wrong it’s hard to know where to begin. As a fantasy item it makes for a really neat shooter; I’d haul it out to range for sure. But as a collector piece, or even an interesting historical piece it’s nil. __________________ John 8:32 reive (riːv) vb (Military) (intr) dialect Scot and Northern English to go on a plundering raid [variant of reave] ˈreiver n e.g., " Some view the Border Reivers as loveable rogues."

11-26-2017, 02:18 PM	#12
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	So I guess my question remains. Is that a legal pistol/stock combo? My initial reaction is that it is not. dju

11-26-2017, 03:42 PM	#15
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	"The laws regarding the stock in the US are a result of irrational thought by the powers that are the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms." That may very well be true, however... That is not an authentic pattern stock and is therefore illegal IMHO. No different than putting an artillery stock on a Naval Luger. dju

11-26-2017, 05:00 PM	#17
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,769 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Edit. Alcohol; tobacco and firearms should never be in the same bureau. [/QUOTE] Yes, yes. Alcohol and tobacco in the club house.

11-26-2017, 06:21 PM	#18
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,614 Thanks: 3,140 Thanked 2,519 Times in 939 Posts	I agree that it would be illegal to attach. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

11-26-2017, 10:46 PM	#20
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	My only reason for posting this is that the seller and the buyer probably weren't aware of this silliness and may have paraded around a gun show in violation of federal law. And we all know where the BATF like to spend their weekends... dju