Finally - my first artillery Luger!

Balder · 11-13-2009, 10:31 AM

Gentlemen,

After some 20+ years, I finally found an LP that to me looks all right. It's a DWM 1916, serial # 61XX a, with a matching magazine. It came with a stock, holster, magazine pouch and harness, as well as a Type I (?) drum magazine.

It did set me back a pretty penny, but since this is probably the last Luger I'll ever buy (yeah, right) I was ok dumping around $ 5K for the whole deal.

I would appreciate your expert comments, also I'd like to know what the unit marking means.

Please excuse the picture quality, it was the best I could do in the fading daylight. I can post more pics tomorrow if necessary.

Regards,

Balder

worldoftone · 11-13-2009, 10:35 AM

Oh yeah, congrats! That exact rig right there is what I have wanted since I was 14. Awesome rig!

- WOT

Ron Smith · 11-13-2009, 10:45 AM

Hi John,

Füs.R.122.8.7. is Füsilier (Rifle) Regt. 122 company 8 weapon 7

That is a great unit mark , and an interesting history.

The 122nd Füs Regt. was part of the 26th Infantry Div. 1914-1915

~Divisional battle history~

1914~Lorraine-Argonne
Flanders
Russia
Poland

1915~
Serbia
Belgium

1916~ Moved to the 105th Infantry Div.
Bulgaria
Macedonia
Galicia- The 122nd Regt. sufferd 26 Officers and 1165 Enlisted casualties.

1917~ Moved to the 243rd Infantry Div. (Formerly the 8th Ersatz Div.)
Lorraine
Aisne
Meuse Hill 344
Meuse (Left Bank)
Verdun

1918~
Battle of Picardy- 122nd Regt. lost 207 casualties.
Picardy
3rd Battle of Somme

Ron

alanint · 11-13-2009, 12:29 PM

The leather accoutriments are reproduction?

George Anderson · 11-13-2009, 12:42 PM

Balder, congratulations on a great LP08. If you would please share the full serial number for my records. Here's mine one company removed and a couple hundred higher serial number. I have also seen a 1917 LP08 marked to the 122nd Regiment.

Ron Smith · 11-13-2009, 12:42 PM

"The leather accoutriments are reproduction?"

After a closer look, I would have to agree with Doug. The leather looks to be repro.

Ron

Balder · 11-13-2009, 01:21 PM

I can't find any markings on the leather/wooden parts, but they sure look and smell really old. What makes you suspect it's a reproduction?

Edit: The top flap does look a bit large and square when I compare it to pictures of other holsters. It's kind of like it wasn't originally attached to the rest of the holster. It sure is old though. Maybe a repair/replacement at some stage?

Balder

George Anderson · 11-13-2009, 06:26 PM

Balder your leather is modern stuff made in Pakistan. If you look at the back of the holster you will probably see two attachment straps; one vertical the other horizontal. I can not see the details of your stock so I can't pass judgement there. The magazine pouch is also of Pakistani origin.

alanint · 11-13-2009, 08:39 PM

Thank you, George, I was trying to be polite. The holster looks like it has been forcibly bent in the middle to give it "Krinkle".
Clearly of Paki origin. You can tell just from the sheen and color on the leather

Not trying to rain on your parade, Balder, but if the rig was sold as 100% original, I would look for some sort of rebate from the seller

Balder · 11-14-2009, 03:18 AM

Gentlemen,

I appreciate your inputs about the unit and the leather, I'll try to take some close-up pictures later on today. I also need to talk with the seller, who, like me, thought the leather was the real deal. How much would it detract from the value?

Can anybody tell me more about the drum magazine; model, year made, etc.?

Balder

George Anderson · 11-14-2009, 07:17 AM

Balder the drum was made by Gebruder Bing of Nurnberg. It is the first of four variations made by Bing and was made in 1917.

As to value of the leather, a set of Paki stuff usually can be had for under $200. A full set of original leather in fair or good condition will cost at least $1000. These are current US prices.

Mikkel Rev · 11-14-2009, 09:19 AM

I was the seller og this Luger to Balder. It is NOT a copy.
Michael

alamar · 11-14-2009, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikkel Rev

I was the seller og this Luger to Balder. It is NOT a copy.
Michael

Well, I guess that settles it doesn't it?

To the more knowledgeable and experienced posters, is there a primer anywhere on this site that does a comparison and illustrates the things to look for to determine whether the leather and stocks are fake or real?

Ron Smith · 11-14-2009, 10:44 AM

Al,

The best, and most immediate way to tell is to look at the back of the holster. If it has a vertical belt loop below the mounting block, it's a Paki reproduction. Also, the type of wood the stock is made from, and the wood to metal fit of the stock iron. Otherwise, you have to see the leather quality and stitching hands-on, and smell it. There's a difference due to ageing and the tanning process.

Ron

Balder · 11-14-2009, 11:54 AM

Gentlemen,

Please take a look at the attached pictures, opinions are appreciated.

Balder

RichSr · 11-14-2009, 11:55 AM

Balder
Regardless of what the seller claims. if George Anderson says the rig is a Paki reproduction you can bet it is. This one is a no brainer as even I can see the signs of it's origin.

worldoftone · 11-14-2009, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Well, I guess that settles it doesn't it?

Heh heh

- WOT

tenbears · 11-14-2009, 12:38 PM

Stock iron should have a serial number and the stock a Crown S or C if military. I would like to add great unit mark on the LPO8. The 26TH Div was one of the best shock divisions in the German Army. I have a S98 scaber unit marked to the 119 Rgt which was part of the 26TH Div. I also like the bread bag and shoulder tab to go along with the LPO8.

Vlim · 11-14-2009, 01:16 PM

The leather and the stock are both reproductions.

alanint · 11-14-2009, 01:16 PM

In my humble opinion, the entire rig is a reproduction. The pistol is a keeper.

Sorry to have opened up a can of worms here.

11-13-2009, 10:31 AM	#1
Balder User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 288 Thanks: 20 Thanked 34 Times in 19 Posts	Finally - my first artillery Luger! Gentlemen, After some 20+ years, I finally found an LP that to me looks all right. It's a DWM 1916, serial # 61XX a, with a matching magazine. It came with a stock, holster, magazine pouch and harness, as well as a Type I (?) drum magazine. It did set me back a pretty penny, but since this is probably the last Luger I'll ever buy (yeah, right) I was ok dumping around $ 5K for the whole deal. I would appreciate your expert comments, also I'd like to know what the unit marking means. Please excuse the picture quality, it was the best I could do in the fading daylight. I can post more pics tomorrow if necessary. Regards, Balder

11-13-2009, 10:45 AM	#3
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Hi John, Füs.R.122.8.7. is Füsilier (Rifle) Regt. 122 company 8 weapon 7 That is a great unit mark , and an interesting history. The 122nd Füs Regt. was part of the 26th Infantry Div. 1914-1915 ~Divisional battle history~ 1914~Lorraine-Argonne Flanders Russia Poland 1915~ Serbia Belgium 1916~ Moved to the 105th Infantry Div. Bulgaria Macedonia Galicia- The 122nd Regt. sufferd 26 Officers and 1165 Enlisted casualties. 1917~ Moved to the 243rd Infantry Div. (Formerly the 8th Ersatz Div.) Lorraine Aisne Meuse Hill 344 Meuse (Left Bank) Verdun 1918~ Battle of Picardy- 122nd Regt. lost 207 casualties. Picardy 3rd Battle of Somme Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said... Last edited by Ron Smith; 11-13-2009 at 11:39 AM.

11-13-2009, 12:42 PM	#5
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,769 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Balder, congratulations on a great LP08. If you would please share the full serial number for my records. Here's mine one company removed and a couple hundred higher serial number. I have also seen a 1917 LP08 marked to the 122nd Regiment. Attached Thumbnails

11-13-2009, 12:42 PM	#6
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	"The leather accoutriments are reproduction?" After a closer look, I would have to agree with Doug. The leather looks to be repro. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

11-13-2009, 01:21 PM	#7
Balder User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 288 Thanks: 20 Thanked 34 Times in 19 Posts	I can't find any markings on the leather/wooden parts, but they sure look and smell really old. What makes you suspect it's a reproduction? Edit: The top flap does look a bit large and square when I compare it to pictures of other holsters. It's kind of like it wasn't originally attached to the rest of the holster. It sure is old though. Maybe a repair/replacement at some stage? Balder Last edited by Balder; 11-13-2009 at 03:50 PM.

11-13-2009, 10:35 AM	#2
worldoftone User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 81 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Oh yeah, congrats! That exact rig right there is what I have wanted since I was 14. Awesome rig! - WOT

11-13-2009, 12:29 PM	#4
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	The leather accoutriments are reproduction?

11-13-2009, 06:26 PM	#8
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,769 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Balder your leather is modern stuff made in Pakistan. If you look at the back of the holster you will probably see two attachment straps; one vertical the other horizontal. I can not see the details of your stock so I can't pass judgement there. The magazine pouch is also of Pakistani origin.

11-13-2009, 08:39 PM	#9
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Thank you, George, I was trying to be polite. The holster looks like it has been forcibly bent in the middle to give it "Krinkle". Clearly of Paki origin. You can tell just from the sheen and color on the leather Not trying to rain on your parade, Balder, but if the rig was sold as 100% original, I would look for some sort of rebate from the seller

11-14-2009, 03:18 AM	#10
Balder User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 288 Thanks: 20 Thanked 34 Times in 19 Posts	Gentlemen, I appreciate your inputs about the unit and the leather, I'll try to take some close-up pictures later on today. I also need to talk with the seller, who, like me, thought the leather was the real deal. How much would it detract from the value? Can anybody tell me more about the drum magazine; model, year made, etc.? Balder

11-14-2009, 07:17 AM	#11
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,769 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Balder the drum was made by Gebruder Bing of Nurnberg. It is the first of four variations made by Bing and was made in 1917. As to value of the leather, a set of Paki stuff usually can be had for under $200. A full set of original leather in fair or good condition will cost at least $1000. These are current US prices.

11-14-2009, 09:19 AM	#12
Mikkel Rev New User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I was the seller og this Luger to Balder. It is NOT a copy. Michael

11-14-2009, 10:44 AM	#14
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Al, The best, and most immediate way to tell is to look at the back of the holster. If it has a vertical belt loop below the mounting block, it's a Paki reproduction. Also, the type of wood the stock is made from, and the wood to metal fit of the stock iron. Otherwise, you have to see the leather quality and stitching hands-on, and smell it. There's a difference due to ageing and the tanning process. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

11-14-2009, 11:54 AM	#15
Balder User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 288 Thanks: 20 Thanked 34 Times in 19 Posts	Gentlemen, Please take a look at the attached pictures, opinions are appreciated. Balder

11-14-2009, 11:55 AM	#16
RichSr User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: West Texas Posts: 127 Thanks: 153 Thanked 51 Times in 35 Posts	Balder Regardless of what the seller claims. if George Anderson says the rig is a Paki reproduction you can bet it is. This one is a no brainer as even I can see the signs of it's origin. __________________ Rich

11-14-2009, 12:38 PM	#18
tenbears User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 370 Thanks: 3 Thanked 26 Times in 15 Posts	Stock iron should have a serial number and the stock a Crown S or C if military. I would like to add great unit mark on the LPO8. The 26TH Div was one of the best shock divisions in the German Army. I have a S98 scaber unit marked to the 119 Rgt which was part of the 26TH Div. I also like the bread bag and shoulder tab to go along with the LPO8.

11-14-2009, 01:16 PM	#19
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	The leather and the stock are both reproductions.