1917 Artillery my first luger

Steve71 · 05-17-2005, 09:29 PM

I've been a gun enthusiast all my life and in a couple of weeks I will be getting my first luger. I've always dreamed of having one since I was a kid. I was raised on "Combat, Rat Patrol and Twelve O'clock High. Ok, that's my history

I've really been reading over this web site and I am amazed at what I have learned in a few days. There is so much I don't know but I'm willing to learn. I need some help OK? This luger stuff is ADDICTIVE!

A friend of mine in Montana had a neighbor pass away and his wife gave him the luger which belonged to her husband. He got it from his dad. His Dad brought it back from Hungary in 1938 or 39. There is more history on the gun but none of it is documented. The story has been passed along in the family since then. My buddy knew I would be interested and has offered it to me for a fair price. Hopefully, you guys can help me on that.

I haven't seen it yet, but I will try and post some pictures that were sent to me. My buddy says the bluing is about 50%. No pitting. The odd thing about this piece is that the right side grip is wore smooth. Does anyone know why this is? The gun is reported to be all original. The numbers match with the exception of the magazine. The gun is fully operational and has a holster, and cleaning kit. It is a 1917 DWM Artillery Ser # 48xx. Once I get it, I can post some better pictures which will help, but if any of you can help me, I'd appreciate it. This is a piece that I will keep forever and hand down to my son or son-in-law. I'm considering maybe having it refinished, (I've been reading about Thor) but I'm reading a lot of different opinions on whether or not a guy should do that. I'll decide that later. Can you estimate a fair price that I should pay. The guy is a friend of mine, but at the same time, it didn't cost him anything. I naturally want a good deal, but I want to be fair about it as well. He's delivering the gun to me in a couple of weeks and said, "pay me what it's worth".

I'm sorry to not be better informed and I don't recall the exact name on the markings. You can't see it in the photos, but it has the three crowns and eagle on the right side of the breach. Ok, I know your laughing and someone will tell me what they are called.

Anyway, thanks for helping and thanks for letting me join you.

Steve

Steve71 · 05-17-2005, 09:32 PM

I thought I posted the pictures. I'll try again. Sorry.

Steve71 · 05-17-2005, 09:34 PM

picture 1

Steve71 · 05-17-2005, 09:34 PM

picture 2

Steve71 · 05-17-2005, 09:35 PM

picture 3

Ron Smith · 05-17-2005, 10:11 PM

Hi Steve,

At this point the value is subjective. The holster alone, I would speculate to be $300-$400+. The pistol looks to be approximately 50-60%.
Without being able to see better photos. My guess would be $1000 - $1200 for the pistol. A fair price, in my opinion, would be $1300-$1400 for the rig. Others may have different opinions, but I would offer him $800- $900 since it was a freebie. Forum member Hugh Clark does an outstanding job of recheckering grips, and not that spendy.

Ron

Steve71 · 05-17-2005, 10:39 PM

Ron,

Thank you so much. I'll be sure to take better photos when I have it in hand. I'll also check into getting the grips recheckered. I tell ya, that smooth grip really has be baffled. I wish I knew what happend to it. It doesn't seem to me it would wear like that from normal use. Especially when the other one is ok.

Thanks again. You've been very helpful.

Steve

Ron Smith · 05-17-2005, 11:00 PM

Steve , It's really hard to say. Maybe the grip got damamged or someone's name or initials were removed. It was very common for some GI's to carve their initials into the right grip or even inlay some sort of ornimentation.

Ron

Steve71 · 05-17-2005, 11:26 PM

Ron,

Thank you. Maybe the guy was just real nervous and whittled away at it.

My grandfather was in the trenches in France in WW I and to pass time, he collected all the aluminum foil wrappers from chewing gum. In those days, the wrapping was solid aluminum foil. He packed them into a softball size ball and to this day, my brother now has it. He said it was just something he did to pass time when it was quiet and couldn't leave it behind when he came home. If this gun saw any action, who knows what happened. I'll give it a closer inspection when I get it.

Thank you!

Steve

the gunman · 05-18-2005, 09:16 AM

I think Ron's got the values down very well. Nice find.

Steve71 · 05-18-2005, 12:05 PM

Gunman,

Thank you. I'm pretty excited about getting it. However, I'm afraid this may be the the start of something that my wife just won't understand

Steve

DougT · 05-18-2005, 12:20 PM

Steve,

Congratulations on your first Luger. I agree with Ron on the values. This gun would make an excellent restoration candidate for Thor. As far as your wife "understanding," I wouldn't worry about that. Just tell her it's not a matter of need (in response to her saying "how many do you need?"). My wife doesn't understand either, but she loves me enough to accept that the Lugers are something I really enjoy. It also helps to bribe them occasionally with jewelry and other nice things. Enjoy!

DougT

Steve71 · 05-18-2005, 12:44 PM

Doug,

You got that right. Jewelry, dinner, wine and flowers. I guess that's all part of the purchase price

Yes, I will be getting in touch with Thor after I get the piece in hand so I can send him better detailed photos. I've seen pictures of some of his work and they look to be awesome. I need to read up on more of this process so I can have a better idea of what it's all about. However, even after I read it all, I still won't know enough. More than anything I need to rely on the experts. I've learned that sometimes you have to trust the guy that has been there and done it.

THANK YOU,

Steve

Big Norm · 05-18-2005, 07:06 PM

Steve,
I would hold off of the restoring/rebluing of you gun. Really sleep on it. Once its been reblued, it is no longer a collectors piece and the value drops a lot.

Look at the bore. If the bore is in terrific shape then I would consider sleeping a bit longer while thinking about restoration. It is really hard to determine condition from just pictures. What sort of condition are the grip straps?

Take your grips off and look on the back side to see if they have been numbered to the gun. If the smooth grip is not numbered to the gun then maybe that grip was traded off somewhere along the way. Be careful in removing the grip on the left side. It can break easily up near the safety.

I could not see the holster very well. Is the strap broken or is it just folded over? What is the date on it and who is the manufacturer. If it is a 1914 or 1918 dated holster, it may very well be worth more than the gun. Who the manufacturer is is also another story. Generally speaking, the holster doesn't look in that bad a shape and could add considerable value to your purchase. Ask the seller if there is any more leather that comes with the holster. Straps and the cup could add considerably more value to your purchase.
Big Norm

Steve71 · 05-19-2005, 02:43 AM

Big Norm,

I sincerely want to thank you. Your comments are very helpful. I understand that doing a restoration is a huge consideration and I just don't know which way to go on that yet. Part of me says, yes, but then again, I like "original". I can't answer any other questions about the condition on the gun or holster right now. I will get my hands on it Monday. When I do. I'll post more pictures and hopefully, you and others can help me even further.

I'm really impressed with the help everyone has offered up to me. If we all lived closer, I'd throw a luger barbecue to say thanks.

Sincerely,

Steve

Edward Tinker · 05-19-2005, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve71
I've been a gun enthusiast all my life and in a couple of weeks I will be getting my first luger. I've always dreamed of having one since I was a kid. I was raised on "Combat, Rat Patrol and Twelve O'clock High. Steve

Personnally I always liked the 50 cal on the jeep!

I too always liked those type of shows, might be why I like Lugers, SSA's, 1911's, WW2, etc

Steve71 · 05-19-2005, 01:19 PM

Ed,

Did you know that the whole "Combat" series is now available on DVD? They are awesome. High resolution, etc. It really brings back memories for me. Now I'm going to be looking for lugers in the episodes

Steve

Edward Tinker · 05-19-2005, 02:05 PM

I saw them for sale at wally world, and almost bought the series, now I'll have to!

Ed

John Sabato · 05-19-2005, 03:47 PM

Steve, Let me add my welcome to the Lugerforum and congrats on a wonderful Luger to be your first...

I might speculate on the smooth grip that the owner may have thought that the grips would be better without checkering and then after doing one, decided that it would be a mistake and didn't do the other... or more likely, the original right hand grip may have been cracked or otherwise damaged, and the first replacement that the owner found was already smooth, but made the gun functional again...

Your holster seems to be in super condition for it's age... don't put ANYTHING on it. Just brush it clean and keep it cool and dry. I recommend that you keep it full of bubble wrap to maintain the shape...NEVER store the gun in the holster. That is bad for both of them... We don't want to contaminate that ancient leather with gun oil, or to have the natural tendency of dry leather to collect moisture and hold it against the gun.

Once again Welcome and congrats... and preserve that piece of history for future generations...

PS - COMBAT! was probably my favorite TV series as the child of a WW2 vet... One of the few memories of sharing time with my Dad (who will be 86 in July)....we never missed an episode.

Steve71 · 05-20-2005, 01:30 AM

John,

Thank you very much. I suspect you may have the smooth grip situation figured out. I'm really anxious to get my hands on it and take a closer look. I'm really hoping it was just smoothed out verses being a crack. Thanks for the tips on the holster. I'll be sure to do what you suggest.

As a side note, I don't want to turn this into a forum for "Combat", but you got to get the series. It is AWESOME watching them over again. I keep thinking I'll see one that I recognize, but I was too young when they first aired them. Maybe 12 or so. They are on Amazon for purchase. I'll trust you on the Luger advise. You have to trust me on the Purchase of "Combat". Besides, you need to do it to watch it again with your Dad. He'd love it and so would you.

Thanks again.

Sincerely,

Steve

05-17-2005, 09:29 PM	#1
Steve71 User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sumner, Wa. Posts: 130 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1917 Artillery my first luger I've been a gun enthusiast all my life and in a couple of weeks I will be getting my first luger. I've always dreamed of having one since I was a kid. I was raised on "Combat, Rat Patrol and Twelve O'clock High. Ok, that's my history I've really been reading over this web site and I am amazed at what I have learned in a few days. There is so much I don't know but I'm willing to learn. I need some help OK? This luger stuff is ADDICTIVE! A friend of mine in Montana had a neighbor pass away and his wife gave him the luger which belonged to her husband. He got it from his dad. His Dad brought it back from Hungary in 1938 or 39. There is more history on the gun but none of it is documented. The story has been passed along in the family since then. My buddy knew I would be interested and has offered it to me for a fair price. Hopefully, you guys can help me on that. I haven't seen it yet, but I will try and post some pictures that were sent to me. My buddy says the bluing is about 50%. No pitting. The odd thing about this piece is that the right side grip is wore smooth. Does anyone know why this is? The gun is reported to be all original. The numbers match with the exception of the magazine. The gun is fully operational and has a holster, and cleaning kit. It is a 1917 DWM Artillery Ser # 48xx. Once I get it, I can post some better pictures which will help, but if any of you can help me, I'd appreciate it. This is a piece that I will keep forever and hand down to my son or son-in-law. I'm considering maybe having it refinished, (I've been reading about Thor) but I'm reading a lot of different opinions on whether or not a guy should do that. I'll decide that later. Can you estimate a fair price that I should pay. The guy is a friend of mine, but at the same time, it didn't cost him anything. I naturally want a good deal, but I want to be fair about it as well. He's delivering the gun to me in a couple of weeks and said, "pay me what it's worth". I'm sorry to not be better informed and I don't recall the exact name on the markings. You can't see it in the photos, but it has the three crowns and eagle on the right side of the breach. Ok, I know your laughing and someone will tell me what they are called. Anyway, thanks for helping and thanks for letting me join you. Steve

05-17-2005, 09:32 PM	#2
Steve71 User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sumner, Wa. Posts: 130 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I thought I posted the pictures. I'll try again. Sorry. __________________ "Hey soldier, don't forget to pick up the Lugers. Someday, they'll be worth a lot of money".

05-17-2005, 09:34 PM	#3
Steve71 User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sumner, Wa. Posts: 130 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	picture 1 Attached Thumbnails

05-17-2005, 09:34 PM	#4
Steve71 User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sumner, Wa. Posts: 130 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	picture 2 Attached Thumbnails

05-17-2005, 09:35 PM	#5
Steve71 User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sumner, Wa. Posts: 130 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	picture 3 Attached Thumbnails

05-17-2005, 10:11 PM	#6
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Hi Steve, At this point the value is subjective. The holster alone, I would speculate to be $300-$400+. The pistol looks to be approximately 50-60%. Without being able to see better photos. My guess would be $1000 - $1200 for the pistol. A fair price, in my opinion, would be $1300-$1400 for the rig. Others may have different opinions, but I would offer him $800- $900 since it was a freebie. Forum member Hugh Clark does an outstanding job of recheckering grips, and not that spendy. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

05-17-2005, 10:39 PM	#7
Steve71 User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sumner, Wa. Posts: 130 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ron, Thank you so much. I'll be sure to take better photos when I have it in hand. I'll also check into getting the grips recheckered. I tell ya, that smooth grip really has be baffled. I wish I knew what happend to it. It doesn't seem to me it would wear like that from normal use. Especially when the other one is ok. Thanks again. You've been very helpful. Steve __________________ "Hey soldier, don't forget to pick up the Lugers. Someday, they'll be worth a lot of money".

05-17-2005, 11:00 PM	#8
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Steve , It's really hard to say. Maybe the grip got damamged or someone's name or initials were removed. It was very common for some GI's to carve their initials into the right grip or even inlay some sort of ornimentation. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

05-17-2005, 11:26 PM	#9
Steve71 User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sumner, Wa. Posts: 130 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ron, Thank you. Maybe the guy was just real nervous and whittled away at it. My grandfather was in the trenches in France in WW I and to pass time, he collected all the aluminum foil wrappers from chewing gum. In those days, the wrapping was solid aluminum foil. He packed them into a softball size ball and to this day, my brother now has it. He said it was just something he did to pass time when it was quiet and couldn't leave it behind when he came home. If this gun saw any action, who knows what happened. I'll give it a closer inspection when I get it. Thank you! Steve

05-18-2005, 09:16 AM	#10
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	I think Ron's got the values down very well. Nice find.

05-18-2005, 12:05 PM	#11
Steve71 User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sumner, Wa. Posts: 130 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Gunman, Thank you. I'm pretty excited about getting it. However, I'm afraid this may be the the start of something that my wife just won't understand Steve __________________ "Hey soldier, don't forget to pick up the Lugers. Someday, they'll be worth a lot of money".

05-18-2005, 12:20 PM	#12
DougT User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: So. Cal. Posts: 171 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Steve, Congratulations on your first Luger. I agree with Ron on the values. This gun would make an excellent restoration candidate for Thor. As far as your wife "understanding," I wouldn't worry about that. Just tell her it's not a matter of need (in response to her saying "how many do you need?"). My wife doesn't understand either, but she loves me enough to accept that the Lugers are something I really enjoy. It also helps to bribe them occasionally with jewelry and other nice things. Enjoy! DougT

05-18-2005, 12:44 PM	#13
Steve71 User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sumner, Wa. Posts: 130 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Doug, You got that right. Jewelry, dinner, wine and flowers. I guess that's all part of the purchase price Yes, I will be getting in touch with Thor after I get the piece in hand so I can send him better detailed photos. I've seen pictures of some of his work and they look to be awesome. I need to read up on more of this process so I can have a better idea of what it's all about. However, even after I read it all, I still won't know enough. More than anything I need to rely on the experts. I've learned that sometimes you have to trust the guy that has been there and done it. THANK YOU, Steve

05-18-2005, 07:06 PM	#14
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Steve, I would hold off of the restoring/rebluing of you gun. Really sleep on it. Once its been reblued, it is no longer a collectors piece and the value drops a lot. Look at the bore. If the bore is in terrific shape then I would consider sleeping a bit longer while thinking about restoration. It is really hard to determine condition from just pictures. What sort of condition are the grip straps? Take your grips off and look on the back side to see if they have been numbered to the gun. If the smooth grip is not numbered to the gun then maybe that grip was traded off somewhere along the way. Be careful in removing the grip on the left side. It can break easily up near the safety. I could not see the holster very well. Is the strap broken or is it just folded over? What is the date on it and who is the manufacturer. If it is a 1914 or 1918 dated holster, it may very well be worth more than the gun. Who the manufacturer is is also another story. Generally speaking, the holster doesn't look in that bad a shape and could add considerable value to your purchase. Ask the seller if there is any more leather that comes with the holster. Straps and the cup could add considerably more value to your purchase. Big Norm

05-19-2005, 02:43 AM	#15
Steve71 User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sumner, Wa. Posts: 130 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Big Norm, I sincerely want to thank you. Your comments are very helpful. I understand that doing a restoration is a huge consideration and I just don't know which way to go on that yet. Part of me says, yes, but then again, I like "original". I can't answer any other questions about the condition on the gun or holster right now. I will get my hands on it Monday. When I do. I'll post more pictures and hopefully, you and others can help me even further. I'm really impressed with the help everyone has offered up to me. If we all lived closer, I'd throw a luger barbecue to say thanks. Sincerely, Steve __________________ "Hey soldier, don't forget to pick up the Lugers. Someday, they'll be worth a lot of money".

05-19-2005, 01:19 PM	#17
Steve71 User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sumner, Wa. Posts: 130 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed, Did you know that the whole "Combat" series is now available on DVD? They are awesome. High resolution, etc. It really brings back memories for me. Now I'm going to be looking for lugers in the episodes Steve

05-19-2005, 02:05 PM	#18
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	I saw them for sale at wally world, and almost bought the series, now I'll have to! Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

05-19-2005, 03:47 PM	#19
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Steve, Let me add my welcome to the Lugerforum and congrats on a wonderful Luger to be your first... I might speculate on the smooth grip that the owner may have thought that the grips would be better without checkering and then after doing one, decided that it would be a mistake and didn't do the other... or more likely, the original right hand grip may have been cracked or otherwise damaged, and the first replacement that the owner found was already smooth, but made the gun functional again... Your holster seems to be in super condition for it's age... don't put ANYTHING on it. Just brush it clean and keep it cool and dry. I recommend that you keep it full of bubble wrap to maintain the shape...NEVER store the gun in the holster. That is bad for both of them... We don't want to contaminate that ancient leather with gun oil, or to have the natural tendency of dry leather to collect moisture and hold it against the gun. Once again Welcome and congrats... and preserve that piece of history for future generations... PS - COMBAT! was probably my favorite TV series as the child of a WW2 vet... One of the few memories of sharing time with my Dad (who will be 86 in July)....we never missed an episode. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-20-2005, 01:30 AM	#20
Steve71 User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sumner, Wa. Posts: 130 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	John, Thank you very much. I suspect you may have the smooth grip situation figured out. I'm really anxious to get my hands on it and take a closer look. I'm really hoping it was just smoothed out verses being a crack. Thanks for the tips on the holster. I'll be sure to do what you suggest. As a side note, I don't want to turn this into a forum for "Combat", but you got to get the series. It is AWESOME watching them over again. I keep thinking I'll see one that I recognize, but I was too young when they first aired them. Maybe 12 or so. They are on Amazon for purchase. I'll trust you on the Luger advise. You have to trust me on the Purchase of "Combat". Besides, you need to do it to watch it again with your Dad. He'd love it and so would you. Thanks again. Sincerely, Steve __________________ "Hey soldier, don't forget to pick up the Lugers. Someday, they'll be worth a lot of money".