my profile |
register |
faq |
search upload photo | donate | calendar |
09-01-2017, 05:59 PM | #1 |
User
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 23
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
|
Oversize Firing Pin Damage
Most of you will know this, but a reminder wake up.
Shooter Lugers. Too long a firing pin will piece the primer and if it doesn't have post 1933 gas by pass cuts, on firing the high pressure blows the firing back as it has a seal. This compresses the firing spring, blows the firing pin retainer out the back of the breach block. Very Sad. A friend did this and when mine wouldn't fire after the 2nd shot, I picked up the brass and knew what the problem was. OK, remove blue, a spot of weld, then dress it up with the Dremel, All my shooter have these 3 gas by passes cuts in them. Not hard to do. Prior to this happen, I expected that there would be so much pressure, it would blow the sear bar out and do some really bad damage. |
The following member says Thank You to Kiwi Mark for your post: |
09-01-2017, 11:12 PM | #2 |
Lifer
Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 709
Thanks: 2,073
Thanked 590 Times in 316 Posts
|
I don't know much about firing pins - which kind are too long ?
(I don't shoot a lot, but the few times I had pierced primers was more about the reloads than the gun....curious) |
09-01-2017, 11:29 PM | #3 |
User
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 23
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
|
Even with factory ammo, if the firing pin sticks too far out from the breach block face it can piece the primer, that goes with any firearm. Lucky for me it was a 9mm and didn't cause too much damage, but a 308W may have been a different story.
|
09-02-2017, 02:11 AM | #4 |
Twice a Lifer
Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY
Posts: 3,327
Thanks: 7,216
Thanked 2,545 Times in 1,353 Posts
|
I've never heard of a firing pin tip that grew like Pinocchio's nose before. If it sticks out too far, something is significantly worn, either the inside of the breech block where the striker bottoms out, or the striker itself. I remember seeing a post about a piece of factory gauging that measured F.P. stick-out. It was basically a precisely cut notch on the end of the tool, and a piece of a credit card filed out just as precisely was deemed an adequate substitute. Somewhere here at Luger U., there is a spec for this notch, i.e. the precise distance the tip of the F.P. was designed to protrude. If it's excessive, you'll dress the tip to gain the correct dimension?
__________________
"... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894 |
09-02-2017, 04:45 AM | #5 |
User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,225
Thanks: 2,679
Thanked 930 Times in 509 Posts
|
Luger firing pins don't tend to be too long. It can happen of course but it's not common. The pierced primers, in a Luger, generally occur from excessive headspace.
Either from out of specs ammo, more common on the .30 Luger even with factory loads, or from a mismatched breech block that wasn't properly fitted to the gun. |
09-02-2017, 01:57 PM | #6 |
Patron
LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Az.
Posts: 2,288
Thanks: 2,702
Thanked 971 Times in 716 Posts
|
Perhaps I have misread Kiwi Mark's post, but I interpreted it that he found that he had too short of a firing pin in his shooter Luger(misfire X2), so he built up the tip of his firing pin with weld and then dressed it down with a Dremel tool......obviously leaving it too long, producing pierced primers when fired.
|
09-02-2017, 04:11 PM | #7 |
User
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 23
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
|
Sorry, I'll explain. It's a 9mm, a very tired old lady, 1917 DWM and dressed up with some good looking grips. So off for a shoot, nothing done to the firing pin. Aftermarket mag. After 2 shots, it failed to fire the 3th. Picked up the fired brass, and I could see the pieced primers and could suck air through the case. As well as protuding too much, the diameter of the tip of the firing pin is 1.3mm. The spot of weld was added to the rear of the breach block where the firing pin retainer clicks back in it's final position as it had blow the very thin bit of metal out.
Luger manufactures started to do the gas blow back mod on the front face of the firing pin from 1933, 3 slots. Was it for this reason?? |
09-02-2017, 04:42 PM | #8 |
User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,225
Thanks: 2,679
Thanked 930 Times in 509 Posts
|
Most probably. I only use Mausers as shooters.
|
09-02-2017, 06:43 PM | #9 |
User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: near Charlotte NC
Posts: 4,681
Thanks: 1,441
Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts
|
Here is what the gage looks like.
An original Kreighoff accepted gage, and one of my home made ones. The min and max are in mm. Thus the end of the striker(firing pin) should extend at least 1.1mm past the breech block face, and no more than 1.35mm.
__________________
03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie |
The following 4 members says Thank You to DonVoigt for your post: |
09-02-2017, 06:50 PM | #10 | |
User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: near Charlotte NC
Posts: 4,681
Thanks: 1,441
Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts
|
Quote:
Actually the fluting started earlier, about 1930. Its stated purpose was to improve striker performance in case of buildup of dirt/oil/powder residue; no mention of gas bypass. Many think gas by pass is the "reason" for the flutes, see the recent discussion here: http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...ighlight=flute The surest way to improve gas bypass is to drill a hole in the bottom of the breech block, just aft of the spot where the striker stops against the inside of the breech- this is what the Norwegians and others did fora gas bypass. Better yet is PM, inspection and correction of a sharp or too long striker nose(firing pin).
__________________
03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie |
|
The following 4 members says Thank You to DonVoigt for your post: |
09-09-2017, 06:19 AM | #11 | |
User
Join Date: May 2017
Location: home country of the Lugers => Germany
Posts: 13
Thanks: 3
Thanked 15 Times in 6 Posts
|
Quote:
Thank you! |
|
09-09-2017, 08:10 AM | #12 |
User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,225
Thanks: 2,679
Thanked 930 Times in 509 Posts
|
|
The following 2 members says Thank You to kurusu for your post: |
09-09-2017, 01:41 PM | #13 | |
User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: near Charlotte NC
Posts: 4,681
Thanks: 1,441
Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts
|
Quote:
(My apologies to and of those folks who are members.) chr, There have been several pictures posted on various threads, When I get a chance, I'll pull my Norwegian and see if it has the hole. Maybe someone else has a picture handy or remembers where it is. Maybe a search for "gas escape hole" would find it.
__________________
03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie |
|
09-09-2017, 04:02 PM | #14 |
User
Join Date: May 2017
Location: home country of the Lugers => Germany
Posts: 13
Thanks: 3
Thanked 15 Times in 6 Posts
|
|
09-09-2017, 04:22 PM | #15 | |
User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,225
Thanks: 2,679
Thanked 930 Times in 509 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
09-09-2017, 08:18 PM | #16 |
User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: near Charlotte NC
Posts: 4,681
Thanks: 1,441
Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts
|
Why would you expect google to have a picture?
Everything is NOT on the web! Best I can do right now is describe it, it is an approx 1/8" hole, in the bottom of the bolt, on the centerline, just about at the edge of the "cone" on the inside that fits the front of the striker. Did you try a forum search? Probably not or you would have found this one: http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...as+escape+hole And another one, too bad the link is dead, but a good example of a Finn luger with hole! http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...=bolt+gas+hole Great example of why pictures should be hosted on the forum server too.
__________________
03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie |
09-09-2017, 09:46 PM | #17 |
User
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 81
Thanks: 42
Thanked 49 Times in 27 Posts
|
I believe this is the pic you guys are thinking of. From my understanding the hole is present on all Finnish Lugers just in case of a pierced primer.
|
The following 8 members says Thank You to stg44fan for your post: |
09-09-2017, 10:29 PM | #18 | |
User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: near Charlotte NC
Posts: 4,681
Thanks: 1,441
Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts
|
Quote:
that is it. Thanks for posting the picture!
__________________
03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie |
|
09-10-2017, 05:58 PM | #19 |
User
Join Date: May 2017
Location: home country of the Lugers => Germany
Posts: 13
Thanks: 3
Thanked 15 Times in 6 Posts
|
Thanks to all.
I am thinking now to update my shooting Luger with this hole. Gold idea or not, what would you say? |
09-10-2017, 08:45 PM | #20 |
User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: near Charlotte NC
Posts: 4,681
Thanks: 1,441
Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts
|
Can't do any harm, as long as it is a "shooter".
__________________
03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie |
The following member says Thank You to DonVoigt for your post: |
|
|