New Luger owner comments and curiosity

sandman1915 · 09-06-2005, 10:59 PM

Hello from Texas,

I just came into a pistol from a family member. I have been studying a little on the forum, great info, and I'm ready to dive into my first post.

After looking around for info I have determined so far that it is a 1915 DWM, proofmarked for the military. (three crowned icons and an eagle).
It is all matching number, short bbl, lanyard ring, stock lug, wood grips. and wood plug mags that don't match numbers.

The serial number is low 300s with an h suffix placing it in I figure about the 80 thousand range.

It has the hold open device. It locks back on an empty mag but will not unlock on a full mag. Is this normal? It functions properly if I release the toggle before inserting the new mag. I am used to browning style autos that will close on a new mag with a slight pull to the rear.

In the member gallery is a 1916 pistol with the text that 1916 was the first year that the safety would allow operation of the toggle while engaged. This 1915 pistol will allow operation of the toggle while the safety is engaged. All numbers match on the safety and sear, etc. I suppose the 80 thousand range on it could indicate late production in the year and the transition could have already been in progress before the start of 1916.

Whaddayathink ?

That's probably quite enough for a first post.

Sandman

Edward Tinker · 09-06-2005, 11:10 PM

Sandman, welcome to the forum!

Most earlier guns were modified, so that is why your 1915 displays this.

Can you show us lots of pictures?

Ed

sandman1915 · 09-07-2005, 12:10 AM

Pictures will be sent as time permits. Thanks for the input.

Sandman

John Sabato · 09-07-2005, 10:39 AM

Your Luger SHOULD unlock the toggle when pulled back and released on a new loaded magazine... if it doesn't try a different mag, and make sure that both the gun and magazine have an appropriate amount of lubrication. It should operate smoothely...

Lugerdoc · 09-07-2005, 11:57 AM

Sandman, It's possible that your HO spring is weak. If needed, I do have some nice new DDR made ones @$25 each. Tom

sandman1915 · 09-07-2005, 08:36 PM

Thanks for the help. Just knowing for sure that it should operate that way made me take a closer look. Previously I tried a reload with just a couple of rounds in the loaded mag. I functioned the pistol while watching for the moving parts and found the place where it indexes to the magazine. A tiny drop of oil and a Full reload mag later it functions as designed when operated by hand. Everything else operates smoothly and neatly.
Before I got it, the toggle had probably not been pulled for over twenty years. Not bad considering that. ( I am planning to gently detail clean it after I learn and am confident with the disassembly ).

Thanks Again,

Sandman

sandman1915 · 09-07-2005, 11:30 PM

Here are some pictures that I did today.
I'd like to post an album, if I could get instructions.

Until then here are two and the URL's for the others I uploaded today.

This bore is excellent.

sandman1915 · 09-07-2005, 11:31 PM

Or you could just click them, duh

Hugh · 09-08-2005, 02:24 AM

Sandman

Your pistol was a Police pistol, as evidenced by the sear safety and the clipped magazine safety. Does it have any markings stamped on the front of the grip frame?

sandman1915 · 09-08-2005, 10:23 PM

Thanks Hugh, today's pics will answer your question about the frontstrap markings.

Something else to ponder...

sandman1915 · 09-09-2005, 11:02 PM

Just out of curiosity would this gun be legal with a buttstock??

I also noticed today that the mag I have, that was renumbered, matches the number on the holster.

Sandman

Ron Wood · 09-10-2005, 12:00 AM

The gun would not be legal with a buttstock.

When modified for police use, a "magazine safety" was installed. This device blocks the trigger when the magazine is removed thus preventing an accidental discharge of a weapon presumed empty. The device was cumbersome and really quite a nuisance, so it was either removed or the part that blocked the trigger was clipped off. You have a "clipped" magazine safety.

sandman1915 · 09-10-2005, 12:03 AM

Thanks

Hugh · 09-10-2005, 01:40 AM

Sandman,
The marking on your Luger indicates that it was the property of the Wiesbaden Police, District 2, weapon # 336.

Don M · 09-10-2005, 11:53 AM

Bill,

Thanks for alerting me to this thread. You have a very nice police rig with a proper (albeit not matching) black Schupo police holster.

I can't add anything to the ID provided by Hugh.

sandman1915 · 09-11-2005, 12:36 AM

Thanks for the help so far. I have learned about 90 percent of what I know about this gun from you guys here at the friendly forum.

So, just as a recap, what would be the time frame of the mfg and mods to this pistol?

I would presume from your comments that:
It was made as a military pistol in 1915 (Imperial)
It was factory modified (DWM factory?) in the 20s or 30s to police config with sear mod and mag safety. (Weimar?)
The mag safety was deactivated in the mid to late 30s
(factory or field mod?)
It was retained in police service until WWII and likely parted with its issued user during the war.

Whew...

How does it look on a 1-10 against the average pistol of its type?

Sandman

09-06-2005, 10:59 PM	#1
sandman1915 User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	New Luger owner comments and curiosity Hello from Texas, I just came into a pistol from a family member. I have been studying a little on the forum, great info, and I'm ready to dive into my first post. After looking around for info I have determined so far that it is a 1915 DWM, proofmarked for the military. (three crowned icons and an eagle). It is all matching number, short bbl, lanyard ring, stock lug, wood grips. and wood plug mags that don't match numbers. The serial number is low 300s with an h suffix placing it in I figure about the 80 thousand range. It has the hold open device. It locks back on an empty mag but will not unlock on a full mag. Is this normal? It functions properly if I release the toggle before inserting the new mag. I am used to browning style autos that will close on a new mag with a slight pull to the rear. In the member gallery is a 1916 pistol with the text that 1916 was the first year that the safety would allow operation of the toggle while engaged. This 1915 pistol will allow operation of the toggle while the safety is engaged. All numbers match on the safety and sear, etc. I suppose the 80 thousand range on it could indicate late production in the year and the transition could have already been in progress before the start of 1916. Whaddayathink ? That's probably quite enough for a first post. Sandman

09-06-2005, 11:10 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,931 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	Sandman, welcome to the forum! Most earlier guns were modified, so that is why your 1915 displays this. Can you show us lots of pictures? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-07-2005, 10:39 AM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Your Luger SHOULD unlock the toggle when pulled back and released on a new loaded magazine... if it doesn't try a different mag, and make sure that both the gun and magazine have an appropriate amount of lubrication. It should operate smoothely... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-07-2005, 11:57 AM	#5
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Sandman, It's possible that your HO spring is weak. If needed, I do have some nice new DDR made ones @$25 each. Tom __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

09-08-2005, 02:24 AM	#9
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Sandman Your pistol was a Police pistol, as evidenced by the sear safety and the clipped magazine safety. Does it have any markings stamped on the front of the grip frame? __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

09-07-2005, 12:10 AM	#3
sandman1915 User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Pictures will be sent as time permits. Thanks for the input. Sandman

09-07-2005, 08:36 PM	#6
sandman1915 User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the help. Just knowing for sure that it should operate that way made me take a closer look. Previously I tried a reload with just a couple of rounds in the loaded mag. I functioned the pistol while watching for the moving parts and found the place where it indexes to the magazine. A tiny drop of oil and a Full reload mag later it functions as designed when operated by hand. Everything else operates smoothly and neatly. Before I got it, the toggle had probably not been pulled for over twenty years. Not bad considering that. ( I am planning to gently detail clean it after I learn and am confident with the disassembly ). Thanks Again, Sandman

09-07-2005, 11:30 PM	#7
sandman1915 User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here are some pictures that I did today. I'd like to post an album, if I could get instructions. Until then here are two and the URL's for the others I uploaded today. This bore is excellent. I thought the proofs might be the next most interesting. The rest are available at these URL's if you paste them in the address of your browser. http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...bore_copy1.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dwm15chamber.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dwm15extr.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dwm15front.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dwm15left.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dwm15lockbk.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dwm15openchmbr.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dwm15proofs.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dwm15rear.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dwm15rt.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dwm15sfty.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dwm15top.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/mag1_copy1.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/mag2_copy1.jpg Have fun, and please comment, Sandman

09-07-2005, 11:31 PM	#8
sandman1915 User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Or you could just click them, duh

09-08-2005, 10:23 PM	#10
sandman1915 User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Hugh, today's pics will answer your question about the frontstrap markings. Something else to ponder... Here are some others, including the holster I got with the pistol. http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dwm15undrtog.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dwm15undrchmbr.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/sndmnlugerkey.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/sndmn35hlstr1.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/sndmn35hlstr2.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/sndmn35hlstr3.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/sndmn35hlstr4.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/sndmn35hlstr5.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dwm15inrcvr.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dwm15inrcvr2.jpg Also what do you mean by "clipped magazine safety"? Sandman

09-09-2005, 11:02 PM	#11
sandman1915 User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Just out of curiosity would this gun be legal with a buttstock?? I also noticed today that the mag I have, that was renumbered, matches the number on the holster. Sandman

09-10-2005, 12:00 AM	#12
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,020 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,174 Times in 1,701 Posts	The gun would not be legal with a buttstock. When modified for police use, a "magazine safety" was installed. This device blocks the trigger when the magazine is removed thus preventing an accidental discharge of a weapon presumed empty. The device was cumbersome and really quite a nuisance, so it was either removed or the part that blocked the trigger was clipped off. You have a "clipped" magazine safety. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-10-2005, 12:03 AM	#13
sandman1915 User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks

09-10-2005, 01:40 AM	#14
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Sandman, The marking on your Luger indicates that it was the property of the Wiesbaden Police, District 2, weapon # 336. __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

09-10-2005, 11:53 AM	#15
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Bill, Thanks for alerting me to this thread. You have a very nice police rig with a proper (albeit not matching) black Schupo police holster. I can't add anything to the ID provided by Hugh. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

09-11-2005, 12:36 AM	#16
sandman1915 User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the help so far. I have learned about 90 percent of what I know about this gun from you guys here at the friendly forum. So, just as a recap, what would be the time frame of the mfg and mods to this pistol? I would presume from your comments that: It was made as a military pistol in 1915 (Imperial) It was factory modified (DWM factory?) in the 20s or 30s to police config with sear mod and mag safety. (Weimar?) The mag safety was deactivated in the mid to late 30s (factory or field mod?) It was retained in police service until WWII and likely parted with its issued user during the war. Whew... How does it look on a 1-10 against the average pistol of its type? Sandman