6" .30 Luger barrel, 1900 style

[sheepherder]

Dave -

I lost track of this thread...Have you mounted the barrel yet??? Any pics???

How/where did your machinist get a small enough dovetail cutter??? (Or did you use the existing dovetail?)

[ithacaartist]

Here ya go, Rich. I posted this pic a while ago but darned if I remember which thread it's in. This was taken before I fit the sight blade, but you get the idea...

The sight block's original dovetail was preserved. I gave my guy dimensions taken from a 4 5/8" pencil barrel on my other A.E. I had him reduce the diameters of the barrel, barrel band. Also removed the ramp at the rear of the sight block to yield the same squared style and dimensions of a 1900/06 sight block. Was it Michaelangelo who said his sculptures were inside the quarry blocks, all he had to do was chip away the excess? This project was like this, an early style barrel was within a standard configuration barrel--we just removed the excess! This is now my favorite shooter; I really like the way .30 Luger feels when shooting.

[Edward Tinker]

outstanding, I just love it - read some of my earlier postings and changed it - as I did not like how I came across. My apologies.

Excellent looking Luger!

[John Sabato]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

I didn't want to do it to the Ed barrel because it's original and in really nice shape; it would be just the thing for building a Navy in 7.65.

Dave please remember that a "Navy" barrel has a higher front sight base to match the higher rear Navy sight.

Just any 6" barrel won't work to make a Navy style Luger with a real or repro Navy rear sight. The sights would be at the wrong angle and the gun would print WAY high on the target. If you are having a custom barrel produced, you will need a front sight base that is roughly 1/16" higher... and adjust from there during the build/test firing to get it right.

[sheepherder]

Dave, IMO, what would go great with that profile barrel is one of the Finnish 'square' front sight blades...

[ithacaartist]

OK, on the left is the muzzle of my '06 A.E. long frame with 4 5/8" pencil barrel and proper style sight blade. On the right, we have the 6' pencil barrel in question. The sight blocks on these stick up higher from the barrel band because the early barrel bands aren't as big around as the later barrels. The distance from the center of the bore is, I contend, the same to the top of either sight block! The dovetail area of the modified barrel is undisturbed. Still needs a little cleanup...

Since earlier posts, I've decided not to worry about trying further to make it mimic a Navy-- turns out I'm happy enough with a 6" American Eagle.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

I've seen the dimensional range for proper headspacing discussed before, not too long ago. Could someone with the figures please post them? My search didn't turn up the post I wanted...

I don't recall seeing that thread. It seems everyone who does re-barreling/re-chambering has a different idea of what the 'proper' headspace should be.

Military headspace and commercial headspace are different. Military is much more lenient. Commercial is much tighter, and IMO more accurate.

I had an old six inch barrel blank that was left over from my initial attempts some 30 years ago. I have pretty much viewed it as a mistake, kept to remind me how not to do something. But seeing your six inch 30 cal 'pencil' barrel and looking at my 'mistake', I decided to see if I could salvage it.

It didn't come out as well as yours (I suck at finishes), and it wasn't until I read the two pages here that I realized yours is in 30 cal...Mine is 9mm...

Oh, well...It looks better now than it did 30 years ago...

[ithacaartist]

I "cheated" with the finish on mine, Rich--That's what the machinist who helped me get up up to speed working with my little lathe almost 30 ago would have said about applying a file to establish a final surface. After that, 220/360 grit with a wooden paddle backer; and finally purple Scotch Brite.

O.D. depends on I.D., which is larger on the 9mm. I imagine that the wall thickness of the bbl is a bit greater, too, to handle the greater pressure of a 9mm. Yours looks good and I bet it will look even better on a pistol!

Now I'm wondering if there was ever such a thing as a 9mm barrel with pencil taper, square sight block. I seem to recall that the 9mm barrels on commercials were "military" profile?

[Lugerdoc]

Lifer, The first 9mmP barrels were the M1902 "Fat" barrels. I believe that these pistols had a heavier flat recoil spring, than the 7.65mm M1900s, so if installing a 9mm barrel using the 7.65mm recoil spring, I suggest a low power load in 9mms to be used. TH

[ithacaartist]

Tom,

Would it not also be possible to swap out the flat leaf system and replace with the coil spring system? I know, the components are slightly different between rear toggle and spring, but changing everything over from the rear link on down would do it? I'd add the adjustable guide, too!

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Tom,

Would it not also be possible to swap out the flat leaf system and replace with the coil spring system? I know, the components are slightly different between rear toggle and spring, but changing everything over from the rear link on down would do it? I'd add the adjustable guide, too!

I'm not Tom (Tom doesn't take pics) but I see two problems: The small bulkhead that the coil spring bears against, and the lack of metal for the recoil lever pin...

...What adjustable guide???...

[Ron Wood]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Tom,

Would it not also be possible to swap out the flat leaf system and replace with the coil spring system?

It is not only possible, it has been done. There are a number of authentic experimental and presentation Lugers that have had this modification (I even have done it )

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

It is not only possible, it has been done. There are a number of authentic experimental and presentation Lugers that have had this modification (I even have done it )

Ron, I'm comparing your 1900 frame to mine and I don't quite see where your 'insert' starts & ends...Is it welded in???

Yours has a stock lug...Is that a late 1900 frame???

[ithacaartist]

I see that it's more than simply changing parts...

[Ron Wood]

It starts and ends inside the red circle, and it is silver soldered in. Perhaps you can see the dovetails of the insert in this photo

P.S. It isn't mine...I wish it was. It is a GL marked transitional piece with the improved breech block and made from a 1904 Navy frame which explains the stock lug.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

It starts and ends inside the red circle, and it is silver soldered in. Perhaps you can see the dovetails of the insert in this photo.

I see something on the inside grip, but I can't envision what it is that is soldered in...Dave, can you see it???

Is it something maybe one inch in diameter and shaped to fit the cavity???

[Ron Wood]

Richard,
The entire web (or bulkhead as you call it) and the support for the recoil lever pin has been fabricated and set into the 1900 frame with dovetails at the front (see inset) and rear. Charlie Kenyon provided detailed line drawings of the insert in one of his articles in the series he wrote for "The Gun Report" some years back. It is the same device that was in a prototype piece that has been attributed to the Dutch, in fact some give the Dutch credit for inventing the coil spring action (but was probably something developed by DWM in response to the Dutch request for improvements).

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

Richard,
The entire web (or bulkhead as you call it) and the support for the recoil lever pin has been fabricated and set into the 1900 frame with dovetails at the front (see inset) and rear. Charlie Kenyon provided detailed line drawings of the insert in one of his articles in the series he wrote for "The Gun Report" some years back.

I guess you have to be on top of it to see them...But that's OK, I have no plans for them. I don't have Kenyon's article. Maybe Dave would be interested...

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

Richard,
The entire web (or bulkhead as you call it)...

Yes...It's the old salt in me showing through...

[ithacaartist]

[QUOTE=sheepherder;253071Dave, can you see it???

Is it something maybe one inch in diameter and shaped to fit the cavity???[/QUOTE]

The solder joint at the front of the insert is fairly visible, and if you look closely, a seam is evident in the material b elow the newly-created place for the pin. It would appear that the unit is slipped into the cavity in the frame, and the dovetails on the face of it assure that it won't be torqued around. The closer the fit of the joint, the better the solder bond; so I'd imagine a lot of work in fitting the piece to be patched in. The concept seems simple, otherwise. Thanks for the pics Ron.

I'd like to have a 1900 shooter someday. Changing over the recoil system would eliminate any worries about breaking a flat spring. This modification is semi-permanent (could be restored with a bunch more work) but the theoretical pistol would be a shooter.

Rich, I was referring to the adjustable recoil spring guide in another thread.