Now you too can own one!

Hugh · 09-08-2002, 01:42 AM

[img]eek.gif[/img] Unbelievable! $1000 for a nonfiring replica! But it IS made of "metal"! <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> Check it out here:

Dwight Gruber · 09-08-2002, 04:23 AM

If it is a sufficiently accurate reproduction, do you suppose the grips might fit a Real Luger?

Someone has gone to a great deal of trouble here. Actually, the more I study the pictures, the more I have to wonder if this item started out as a real Luger...or is this an embarrasingly naive question?

--Dwight

wterrell · 09-08-2002, 08:26 AM

[quote] We have only seen ans had one of these rare replicas before, and it sold here on eBay for over $2,000.00 in February of this last year. <hr></blockquote>

The seller obviously does not realize that he has already sold to the only buyer. But the buyer may decide to own a matching pair, I suppose.

I believe that the buyer of the replica needs discussion more than the toy.

Whoa! How stupid I am! It just dawned on me: the buyer of last February is now the current seller. Man, how slick! What a salesman!!

[quote] Entire replica will break down and function exactly as the original but CANNOT BE MADE TO FIRE REAL AMMUNITION. <hr></blockquote>

It can be made to fire within a week.

Roadkill · 09-08-2002, 12:57 PM

Dwight, I tend to agree with you. Are the toggle markings consistent with real HKs? From what I see if the round chambers then it might go off. Wes, what did you mean by saying it coule be made to shoot within a week? What do you see?

RK

wterrell · 09-08-2002, 01:37 PM

Roadkill,

By the description that "Features functional spring loaded thumb activated magazine release, functional trigger with toggle bolt action, engraved metal frame and components, german armory tooling and dye stamps, metal screws, sights, safety, detachable metal magazine, 2 position safety/selector, tapered metal barrel and 8 replica brass 9mm bullets (INERT) that can be fed into the breach via the toggle bolt assembly. Entire replica will break down and function exactly as the original"

I believe that I can route this piece through the shop and have it fully functional within a week. If so much care has been taken with the construction of this toy, I would assume that the completion of the manufacture would not be difficult. (Except if it is pewter)

Hugh · 09-08-2002, 03:05 PM

[img]wink.gif[/img] Does this mean that next month we will see a "Genuine Hermann Goring Presentation Luger", in full firing condition for sale on AA from deep in the heart of the Rockies? [img]biggrin.gif[/img] <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

wterrell · 09-08-2002, 03:23 PM

WITH QUANTITY DISCOUNTS!

Dwight Gruber · 09-08-2002, 04:04 PM

This one has really got me going. The more I look at it, the more I am convinced that it is a real Luger.

Not only that, the toggle at least, is a real Krieghoff. I had to look at some pictures to make sure; the real "Krieghoff" toggle stamp covers the full width of the toggle flat. If you look at the picture of the open toggle, you can see that "Krieghoff" goes all the way across, the left part of the K is buffed away completely and the ff has been buffed shallow. If it was a fake engraving I'm sure that it would have been done after buffing, as the maple leaves appear to be.

If the entire pistol is really a Krieghoff it is really too bad.

RK, under the circumstances, in order to make the gun non-firing, they should have ground off the tip of the firing pin--if they were really dedicated they might fill the firing pin hole in the breechblock face as well.

Wes, I agree that making it a shootable piece would be the easiest thing in the world (based on my presumption that it is a real Luger in the first place, certainly a debatable conclusion). Pewter is not an issue.

What is an issue, however, is that the metal itself still may not be in firable condition.

I once explored the possibility of having a Luger engraved, and was told that it is a difficult proposition because some of the metal surfaces of the gun are extremely hard. The engraver I talked to told me that frequently Lugers are heated to soften these surfaces, makes them much easier to work. He then related to me a horror story about an engraver who did this and then never re-hardened the steel before he put the pistol back together! Given the overall engraving of this gun, it seems reasonable to suspect that this could be the case here.

Of course, if this proves -not- to be a real Luger but an obsessively recreated replica...never mind! [img]rolleyes.gif[/img]

--Dwight

Carl · 09-08-2002, 05:24 PM

Dwight,
These repro's have been around for years. This is just a new one. They are made to satisfy a certain collecting market, rein-actors, collectors in countries where the real thing is illegal, someone dressing a mannequin etc. Years ago a friend bought an MP-40, made in Japan, I believe, which you could not tell from the real thing till you held it and looked real close. The barrel and receiver were die cast from some type of pot metal. Franklin Mint also makes "collectables". Check e-bay they pop up there from time to time. Not to worry they are not real guns and if you would try to fire one the very least that would happen you would be disabled for life!

Stu · 09-09-2002, 08:15 AM

Hi Carl, coming from the UK I'm familiar with the Jap models your talking about, (only thing I could get as a kid !).

I'm pretty sure that this isn't one. The pot metal used for the replicas wouldn't plate to well, I don't think it would engrave that cleanly and certainly doesnt polish up like all the bright metal pictured, (take down, sear, safety etc.)

I think this is based on a real piece, might be a parts gun ? Or is it a much higher quality replica ?

The foam box certainly looks like it held a Jap replica pistol though !

Carl · 09-09-2002, 08:37 AM

Stu,
I'll still go as a complete replica. Have you ever seen the Franklin Mint pieces? Very much the same. You see them sometimes at gun shows.

Stu · 09-09-2002, 05:04 PM

Hi Carl. Could well be that, I've never seen one though. Looking closely at the forward toggle pin it looks 'wrong'and is the ejector the right shape ? So it looks like you're right and a replica may be a good bet.

On the site it shows a Japanese spec sheet on it so it may well be from there; just much higher quality than the run of the mill ones from the 70's, and they weren't bad !

John Sabato · 09-10-2002, 07:48 AM

An identical HG "GUN" was sold on ebay in February of 2000... same serial number on the mag. I know because I have a completely different set of photos from the auction ad that I downloaded. This might be the same model. That one alos sold for an outrageous amount of money... I think I remember that it sold for about $2400...

Perhaps from some Luger lover, that like some here hoped that it was a REAL gun that had just been disabled.

Doubs · 09-10-2002, 11:46 AM

There's something about the pistol that tells me it's a reproduction. The close-up of the chamber and top of the receiver makes it look as though the "engraving" is actually cast as part of the gun. It doesn't have that sharp relief or edge that genuine engraving has. Everything has a "soft" appearance about it. Maybe it's the pictures that create that feeling but it's how I see it.

John Sabato · 09-10-2002, 01:40 PM

8 More photos of this model gun from an eBay auction of the same gun, or one just like it back in February of this year... for about $2400.

I think it is just a model... not a gun, despite how good the photos make it look.

John Sabato · 09-10-2002, 01:42 PM

Here are some more of the same model... had to split them into two posts because there is an 8 image limit per post...

wterrell · 09-10-2002, 07:59 PM

The bore is rifled and there is a travel trough created by the safety lever that has been plated over.

wterrell · 09-10-2002, 08:10 PM

Different label than your post, John.

09-08-2002, 01:42 AM	#1
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Now you too can own one! [img]eek.gif[/img] Unbelievable! $1000 for a nonfiring replica! But it IS made of "metal"! <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> Check it out here: __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

09-08-2002, 08:26 AM	#3
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	[quote] We have only seen ans had one of these rare replicas before, and it sold here on eBay for over $2,000.00 in February of this last year. <hr></blockquote> The seller obviously does not realize that he has already sold to the only buyer. But the buyer may decide to own a matching pair, I suppose. I believe that the buyer of the replica needs discussion more than the toy. Whoa! How stupid I am! It just dawned on me: the buyer of last February is now the current seller. Man, how slick! What a salesman!! [quote] Entire replica will break down and function exactly as the original but CANNOT BE MADE TO FIRE REAL AMMUNITION. <hr></blockquote> It can be made to fire within a week. __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

09-08-2002, 01:37 PM	#5
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Roadkill, By the description that "Features functional spring loaded thumb activated magazine release, functional trigger with toggle bolt action, engraved metal frame and components, german armory tooling and dye stamps, metal screws, sights, safety, detachable metal magazine, 2 position safety/selector, tapered metal barrel and 8 replica brass 9mm bullets (INERT) that can be fed into the breach via the toggle bolt assembly. Entire replica will break down and function exactly as the original" I believe that I can route this piece through the shop and have it fully functional within a week. If so much care has been taken with the construction of this toy, I would assume that the completion of the manufacture would not be difficult. (Except if it is pewter) __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

09-08-2002, 03:05 PM	#6
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	[img]wink.gif[/img] Does this mean that next month we will see a "Genuine Hermann Goring Presentation Luger", in full firing condition for sale on AA from deep in the heart of the Rockies? [img]biggrin.gif[/img] <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" /> __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

09-08-2002, 03:23 PM	#7
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	WITH QUANTITY DISCOUNTS! __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

09-08-2002, 04:23 AM	#2
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	If it is a sufficiently accurate reproduction, do you suppose the grips might fit a Real Luger? Someone has gone to a great deal of trouble here. Actually, the more I study the pictures, the more I have to wonder if this item started out as a real Luger...or is this an embarrasingly naive question? --Dwight

09-08-2002, 12:57 PM	#4
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Dwight, I tend to agree with you. Are the toggle markings consistent with real HKs? From what I see if the round chambers then it might go off. Wes, what did you mean by saying it coule be made to shoot within a week? What do you see? RK

09-08-2002, 04:04 PM	#8
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	This one has really got me going. The more I look at it, the more I am convinced that it is a real Luger. Not only that, the toggle at least, is a real Krieghoff. I had to look at some pictures to make sure; the real "Krieghoff" toggle stamp covers the full width of the toggle flat. If you look at the picture of the open toggle, you can see that "Krieghoff" goes all the way across, the left part of the K is buffed away completely and the ff has been buffed shallow. If it was a fake engraving I'm sure that it would have been done after buffing, as the maple leaves appear to be. If the entire pistol is really a Krieghoff it is really too bad. RK, under the circumstances, in order to make the gun non-firing, they should have ground off the tip of the firing pin--if they were really dedicated they might fill the firing pin hole in the breechblock face as well. Wes, I agree that making it a shootable piece would be the easiest thing in the world (based on my presumption that it is a real Luger in the first place, certainly a debatable conclusion). Pewter is not an issue. What is an issue, however, is that the metal itself still may not be in firable condition. I once explored the possibility of having a Luger engraved, and was told that it is a difficult proposition because some of the metal surfaces of the gun are extremely hard. The engraver I talked to told me that frequently Lugers are heated to soften these surfaces, makes them much easier to work. He then related to me a horror story about an engraver who did this and then never re-hardened the steel before he put the pistol back together! Given the overall engraving of this gun, it seems reasonable to suspect that this could be the case here. Of course, if this proves -not- to be a real Luger but an obsessively recreated replica...never mind! [img]rolleyes.gif[/img] --Dwight

09-08-2002, 05:24 PM	#9
Carl User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Central PA Posts: 113 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts	Dwight, These repro's have been around for years. This is just a new one. They are made to satisfy a certain collecting market, rein-actors, collectors in countries where the real thing is illegal, someone dressing a mannequin etc. Years ago a friend bought an MP-40, made in Japan, I believe, which you could not tell from the real thing till you held it and looked real close. The barrel and receiver were die cast from some type of pot metal. Franklin Mint also makes "collectables". Check e-bay they pop up there from time to time. Not to worry they are not real guns and if you would try to fire one the very least that would happen you would be disabled for life!

09-09-2002, 08:15 AM	#10
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 451 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Hi Carl, coming from the UK I'm familiar with the Jap models your talking about, (only thing I could get as a kid !). I'm pretty sure that this isn't one. The pot metal used for the replicas wouldn't plate to well, I don't think it would engrave that cleanly and certainly doesnt polish up like all the bright metal pictured, (take down, sear, safety etc.) I think this is based on a real piece, might be a parts gun ? Or is it a much higher quality replica ? The foam box certainly looks like it held a Jap replica pistol though !

09-09-2002, 08:37 AM	#11
Carl User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Central PA Posts: 113 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts	Stu, I'll still go as a complete replica. Have you ever seen the Franklin Mint pieces? Very much the same. You see them sometimes at gun shows.

09-09-2002, 05:04 PM	#12
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 451 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Hi Carl. Could well be that, I've never seen one though. Looking closely at the forward toggle pin it looks 'wrong'and is the ejector the right shape ? So it looks like you're right and a replica may be a good bet. On the site it shows a Japanese spec sheet on it so it may well be from there; just much higher quality than the run of the mill ones from the 70's, and they weren't bad !

09-10-2002, 07:48 AM	#13
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	An identical HG "GUN" was sold on ebay in February of 2000... same serial number on the mag. I know because I have a completely different set of photos from the auction ad that I downloaded. This might be the same model. That one alos sold for an outrageous amount of money... I think I remember that it sold for about $2400... Perhaps from some Luger lover, that like some here hoped that it was a REAL gun that had just been disabled. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-10-2002, 11:46 AM	#14
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 771 Thanked 1,614 Times in 525 Posts	There's something about the pistol that tells me it's a reproduction. The close-up of the chamber and top of the receiver makes it look as though the "engraving" is actually cast as part of the gun. It doesn't have that sharp relief or edge that genuine engraving has. Everything has a "soft" appearance about it. Maybe it's the pictures that create that feeling but it's how I see it.

09-10-2002, 01:40 PM	#15
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	8 More photos of this model gun from an eBay auction of the same gun, or one just like it back in February of this year... for about $2400. I think it is just a model... not a gun, despite how good the photos make it look. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-10-2002, 01:42 PM	#16
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Here are some more of the same model... had to split them into two posts because there is an 8 image limit per post... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-10-2002, 07:59 PM	#17
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	The bore is rifled and there is a travel trough created by the safety lever that has been plated over. __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

09-10-2002, 08:10 PM	#18
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Different label than your post, John. __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------