Is this Crack in the frame "normal"?

135C/C · 02-15-2010, 05:19 PM

I've made a couple of posts in the "New Collectors" forum and decided that this would get the maximum visibility to see if what I have is relatively common, or a serious problem.

I recently got a reblued 1914 DWM chamber marked "1916" to finally add a Luger to my collection. other than the grips, and obviously force matched sideplate, suspiciously marked takedown lever, and numbered aluminum based mag, appears to be all matching. Just fine with me, as I just wanted a nice looking "shooter".

I had some funtioning issues with it that I think I can probably solve with a Wolff spring kit. If you look at my "Malfunctioning Toggle....Help!" post in the new collectors forum @ http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=23544 and give me some input on that as well, that would be GREATLY APPRECIATED.

Anyway, onto the crack. Before I took it out to test fire it, I field stripped it and gave it a good look over. I noticed a crack about 3/16" long and wide enough to slide 2 sheets of newspaper into (didn't feel like looking for my feeler gages!) on the left side of the frame adjacent to where the top left side of the magazine is when it's fully inserted. It doesn't look structural to me, but I'm VERY new to Lugers and may very well be wrong. It almost looks as though at one time someone either forced a damaged magazine into it causing the split/crack or repeatedly used a damaged magazine which eventually shaved/stressed the metal enough to make it split over time. I've attached pics to help explain and show the damage. Is this crack fairly common on Lugers, or should I be concerned about it?

I've contacted the seller and he was very apologetic and is ready to refund my purchase price with shipping AND the cost to send it back to him. I'm happy with the look of the gun, the 15 rounds I fired from it (read my above mentioned post in "New Collectors") and would like to keep it, but I'm afraid that even if I can solve the functioning issues after replacing the springs, I may be stuck with a gun that shouldn't be shot.

Inputs or advice?

suum cuique · 02-15-2010, 05:29 PM

This crack is not normal !
I would return this gun.

It's a safety issue, too.

Norme · 02-15-2010, 05:35 PM

Hi, I think you should get out of this deal if you can. I don't know how safe this gun is to shoot - I do know that I wouldn't shoot it! One thing you can be sure of, cracks like this don't improve with time. Regards, Norm

Thor · 02-15-2010, 05:50 PM

Nope, you dont want this Luger!! This is in an area that is thinned to make room for the middle of the magazine side where it is thicker for the crimp of the magazine body. Not normal to have a crack there.

wlyon · 02-15-2010, 07:40 PM

Agree with all the above. At least it looks like you purchased it from an honest person. I'm sure there is a better one waiting for you. Bill

Karl · 02-15-2010, 07:49 PM

I agree with all above - get your money back if you can. I would also note that in addition to the crack, the photo shows the frame is bent in the rear of the magazine well at the top of the mainspring housing. Something bad happened to this gun. KFS

sheepherder · 02-15-2010, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl

I would also note that in addition to the crack, the photo shows the frame is bent in the rear of the magazine well at the top of the mainspring housing. Something bad happened to this gun. KFS

+1

Can you take a side shot, showing the entire grip frame w/grip & cannon off??? And a top shot, looking down into the magwell at the crack??? This would help us determine the full extent of the damage...

Looks like "something happened" in the top part of the magwell...with bad results...

BTW: Could you also show the serial number, just in case this shows up on GB???

Curly1 · 02-15-2010, 08:42 PM

If the seller had a non firing inspection period you are very fortunate he will take it back.

You noticed the crack first and then fired it?

135C/C · 02-15-2010, 11:51 PM

Thanks for the advice guys. The functioning problems i wrote about in the "New Collectors" might have been fixable, but judging from the responses I got herewhen I asked about the crack, it is most definitely NOT normal. If I got it just to collect dust in the safe maybe i would have been good with it, but i want something I can enjoy and shoot.....this doesn't fit the bill. I will be sending the pistol back to the seller. He seems like a straight up guy and wants to make everything right.

To answer a couple of questions:
Yup, I noticed the crack before I shot it but wasn't overly concerned as I didn't think it was at an area that would compromise the functioning of the gun. I also rechecked the crack after firing it with no change in appearance. I'm glad i brought the crack issue up here though....now i know better.

I know some sellers won't take it back if fired, but this one will. Shoot, I've seen some sellers that say you can't even remove a grip screw if you believe that

. Maybe I got lucky because like I said, he seems to want to make things right.

The serial is 9788 for future reference.

On the hunt AGAIN for a Luger......

Great site and thanks again!

Sieger · 02-16-2010, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suum cuique

This crack is not normal !
I would return this gun.

It's a safety issue, too.

Hi:

I bet you there are only one or two of us that know the unit or even country associated with your avatar.

Why don't we have a contest and find out.

Sieger

DavidJayUden · 02-16-2010, 10:55 PM

I give up already.
dju

suum cuique · 02-16-2010, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sieger

Hi:

I bet you there are only one or two of us that know the unit or even country associated with your avatar.

Why don't we have a contest and find out.

Sieger

At least Ed knows

Frat Boy · 02-17-2010, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Why don't we have a contest and find out.

Wow. Looks like you won. How exciting.

sheepherder · 02-18-2010, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suum cuique

At least Ed knows

...???...Don't we all??? IIRC, you posted pics and explained the significance of it some time back...(I'm much too lazy to look up that thread)...

Dutch · 02-18-2010, 03:07 PM

Is this an area that should normally be checked when inspecting a luger?

Norme · 02-18-2010, 03:31 PM

Hi Dutch, I have never heard of a Luger cracking like this. Something unusual happened to this gun. In photo #3 you can see that the part of the frame that forms the back of the magazine well is distorted. Regards, Norm

Curly1 · 02-18-2010, 05:47 PM

maybe a round cooked off in the mag well

lugerholsterrepair · 02-18-2010, 07:14 PM

Norm, I have never heard of a Luger cracking like this.

I bought a Luger once that had fine cracks all thru the bolt & top cannon. So fine you could not see them in bad light but there were plenty of them! I had never heard or seen such a thing either!

Jerry Burney

Karl · 02-18-2010, 07:20 PM

Curly,
I had the same thought. This gun has been refinished and I thought that perhaps it was in a fire. After some reflection I decided that this was an unlikely conclusion: the damage seems to me to be less than what I would expect for such an event and the back of the frame appears to be stronger at that point than the front - I would expect the front grip strap to be deformed if a round cooked off. KFS

alanint · 02-18-2010, 09:55 PM

Is the barrel original to the gun? This looks like somebody shoved a rod or wood block into the magazine area of the frame, perhaps in an attempt to leverage either the top assembly off or somebody dumb enough to try to remove the barrel without disassembling the gun.

02-15-2010, 05:19 PM	#1
135C/C User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Central Kansas Posts: 18 Thanks: 14 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Is this Crack in the frame "normal"? I've made a couple of posts in the "New Collectors" forum and decided that this would get the maximum visibility to see if what I have is relatively common, or a serious problem. I recently got a reblued 1914 DWM chamber marked "1916" to finally add a Luger to my collection. other than the grips, and obviously force matched sideplate, suspiciously marked takedown lever, and numbered aluminum based mag, appears to be all matching. Just fine with me, as I just wanted a nice looking "shooter". I had some funtioning issues with it that I think I can probably solve with a Wolff spring kit. If you look at my "Malfunctioning Toggle....Help!" post in the new collectors forum @ http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=23544 and give me some input on that as well, that would be GREATLY APPRECIATED. Anyway, onto the crack. Before I took it out to test fire it, I field stripped it and gave it a good look over. I noticed a crack about 3/16" long and wide enough to slide 2 sheets of newspaper into (didn't feel like looking for my feeler gages!) on the left side of the frame adjacent to where the top left side of the magazine is when it's fully inserted. It doesn't look structural to me, but I'm VERY new to Lugers and may very well be wrong. It almost looks as though at one time someone either forced a damaged magazine into it causing the split/crack or repeatedly used a damaged magazine which eventually shaved/stressed the metal enough to make it split over time. I've attached pics to help explain and show the damage. Is this crack fairly common on Lugers, or should I be concerned about it? I've contacted the seller and he was very apologetic and is ready to refund my purchase price with shipping AND the cost to send it back to him. I'm happy with the look of the gun, the 15 rounds I fired from it (read my above mentioned post in "New Collectors") and would like to keep it, but I'm afraid that even if I can solve the functioning issues after replacing the springs, I may be stuck with a gun that shouldn't be shot. Inputs or advice? Attached Thumbnails

02-15-2010, 05:29 PM	#2
suum cuique User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: MD / Currently about 9000 klicks east of the Potomac Posts: 497 Thanks: 100 Thanked 47 Times in 35 Posts	This crack is not normal ! I would return this gun. It's a safety issue, too. __________________ Regards, Andy There's No Place Like Home (Wizard Of Oz)

02-15-2010, 05:50 PM	#4
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Nope, you dont want this Luger!! This is in an area that is thinned to make room for the middle of the magazine side where it is thicker for the crimp of the magazine body. Not normal to have a crack there. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

02-15-2010, 07:40 PM	#5
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,614 Thanks: 3,140 Thanked 2,519 Times in 939 Posts	Agree with all the above. At least it looks like you purchased it from an honest person. I'm sure there is a better one waiting for you. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

02-15-2010, 08:42 PM	#8
Curly1 User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,228 Thanks: 111 Thanked 702 Times in 364 Posts	If the seller had a non firing inspection period you are very fortunate he will take it back. You noticed the crack first and then fired it? __________________ Laugh hard and often. Gary

02-15-2010, 05:35 PM	#3
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,414 Thanks: 224 Thanked 2,591 Times in 930 Posts	Hi, I think you should get out of this deal if you can. I don't know how safe this gun is to shoot - I do know that I wouldn't shoot it! One thing you can be sure of, cracks like this don't improve with time. Regards, Norm

02-15-2010, 07:49 PM	#6
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 239 Times in 111 Posts	I agree with all above - get your money back if you can. I would also note that in addition to the crack, the photo shows the frame is bent in the rear of the magazine well at the top of the mainspring housing. Something bad happened to this gun. KFS

02-15-2010, 11:51 PM	#9
135C/C User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Central Kansas Posts: 18 Thanks: 14 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the advice guys. The functioning problems i wrote about in the "New Collectors" might have been fixable, but judging from the responses I got herewhen I asked about the crack, it is most definitely NOT normal. If I got it just to collect dust in the safe maybe i would have been good with it, but i want something I can enjoy and shoot.....this doesn't fit the bill. I will be sending the pistol back to the seller. He seems like a straight up guy and wants to make everything right. To answer a couple of questions: Yup, I noticed the crack before I shot it but wasn't overly concerned as I didn't think it was at an area that would compromise the functioning of the gun. I also rechecked the crack after firing it with no change in appearance. I'm glad i brought the crack issue up here though....now i know better. I know some sellers won't take it back if fired, but this one will. Shoot, I've seen some sellers that say you can't even remove a grip screw if you believe that . Maybe I got lucky because like I said, he seems to want to make things right. The serial is 9788 for future reference. On the hunt AGAIN for a Luger...... Great site and thanks again!

02-16-2010, 10:55 PM	#11
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I give up already. dju

02-18-2010, 03:07 PM	#15
Dutch User Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Is this an area that should normally be checked when inspecting a luger?

02-18-2010, 03:31 PM	#16
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,414 Thanks: 224 Thanked 2,591 Times in 930 Posts	Hi Dutch, I have never heard of a Luger cracking like this. Something unusual happened to this gun. In photo #3 you can see that the part of the frame that forms the back of the magazine well is distorted. Regards, Norm

02-18-2010, 05:47 PM	#17
Curly1 User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,228 Thanks: 111 Thanked 702 Times in 364 Posts	maybe a round cooked off in the mag well __________________ Laugh hard and often. Gary

02-18-2010, 07:14 PM	#18
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Norm, I have never heard of a Luger cracking like this. I bought a Luger once that had fine cracks all thru the bolt & top cannon. So fine you could not see them in bad light but there were plenty of them! I had never heard or seen such a thing either! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

02-18-2010, 07:20 PM	#19
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 239 Times in 111 Posts	Curly, I had the same thought. This gun has been refinished and I thought that perhaps it was in a fire. After some reflection I decided that this was an unlikely conclusion: the damage seems to me to be less than what I would expect for such an event and the back of the frame appears to be stronger at that point than the front - I would expect the front grip strap to be deformed if a round cooked off. KFS

02-18-2010, 09:55 PM	#20
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Is the barrel original to the gun? This looks like somebody shoved a rod or wood block into the magazine area of the frame, perhaps in an attempt to leverage either the top assembly off or somebody dumb enough to try to remove the barrel without disassembling the gun.