Loose Barrel

1970RS · 07-30-2003, 02:57 PM

I recently bought a shooter, mismatched Luger. After cleaning it last night with M Pro7 and Nitro solvent, the barrel loosened from the receiver. The barrel will now freely rotate 15-20 degrees. I think I'll have to remove it complete and re-install. Any tips on how to fix this?

Thanks,
Rob S

John Sabato · 07-30-2003, 05:41 PM

1970RS

THIS is a serious development and NOT a job for the amateur... Please contact one of the Luger-smiths here on the forum for advice and assistance in repairing your Luger. It takes special tools that are not generally in the possession of repair-everything gunsmiths..

I recommend (in no particular order) that you contact one of the following...

Hugh Clark (Hugh)
Tom Heller (Lugerdoc)
Ted Green (THOR)

saxman · 07-30-2003, 06:53 PM

I'd say you have damaged threads or a non-original barrel. I'm guessing that somebody down the line knew this, probably doing it themselves, and used Loctite or Super Glue on it just to tighten it up to sell. Your solvent/penetrating lubricants attacked the glue, so now the barrel is loose. Take it to a gunsmith experienced in Lugers. Maybe he can chase the threads and make it work. Above all, do not fire this gun.

John Sabato · 07-30-2003, 08:36 PM

Another alternative would be to return the gun to whomever you bought it from... perhaps they would make good on it or at least pay for the work to repair it...?

Jim Keenan · 07-31-2003, 02:58 AM

The Luger barrel is like a rifle barrel, it is screwed into the receiver. Normally, the barrel was screwed in and brought up to the witness mark. If it would not draw up, the shoulder was trimmed a bit; if it drew too far, the shoulder was rolled. Then the short chamber was reamed to get the proper headspace.

All of this was just one of the reasons for the high cost of the Luger and the reason the Wehrmacht wanted something cheaper and more reliable.

Needless to say, the factory did not use Super Glue or Red Loctite. GL would not have liked that.

Jim

Dwight Gruber · 07-31-2003, 03:58 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jim Keenan:
The Luger barrel is like a rifle barrel, it is screwed into the receiver. Normally, the barrel was screwed in and brought up to the witness mark. If it would not draw up, the shoulder was trimmed a bit; if it drew too far, the shoulder was rolled. Then the short chamber was reamed to get the proper headspace<hr /></blockquote>A factual digression must be undertaken here. The witness mark was stamped on the finished pistol, just after front sight adjustment and stamping of the front sight alignment mark, as the last step of inspection before power-proofing. This according to the instructions for marking the P-08, 1910 ("German Small Arms Markings" GÃ?Â¶rtz & Bryans p.111)

The actual machining and manufacturing methods for constructing Lugers are obscure, but we can be certain that the barrrels were not "filed-to-fit" as described.

--Dwight

saxman · 07-31-2003, 10:56 PM

Hey, Jim; I didn't say the factory used Loctite. It wasn't even invented then. It's well known that the Luger manufacturers used no adhesives or sealants of any kind when assembling the barrel to the barrel extension. I was merely speculating on a reason why the barrel could be loose enough to turn by hand, but not loose enough to continue turning by hand to remove. A gun hobbyist or unscrupulous dealer could have done what I said, or perhaps soldered it with soft solder. I guess we'll see if he lets us know what the problem was.

George Anderson · 08-05-2003, 09:55 PM

Rob, check your private messages. George

trigger643 · 08-05-2003, 11:28 PM

I once purchased a rough P14 for parts. Upon breakdown, plumber's tape had been used to secure the barrel in place.

Jim Keenan · 08-06-2003, 04:52 AM

Hi, Dwight and Saxman,

I was kidding about factory Loctite use, of course.

Golly, Dwight, I guess the Luger people did things altogether different from everyone else. Naturally, I would never think of questioning anything in a book about the Luger.

Jim

07-30-2003, 02:57 PM	#1
1970RS New User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Loose Barrel I recently bought a shooter, mismatched Luger. After cleaning it last night with M Pro7 and Nitro solvent, the barrel loosened from the receiver. The barrel will now freely rotate 15-20 degrees. I think I'll have to remove it complete and re-install. Any tips on how to fix this? Thanks, Rob S

07-30-2003, 05:41 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	1970RS THIS is a serious development and NOT a job for the amateur... Please contact one of the Luger-smiths here on the forum for advice and assistance in repairing your Luger. It takes special tools that are not generally in the possession of repair-everything gunsmiths.. I recommend (in no particular order) that you contact one of the following... Hugh Clark (Hugh) Tom Heller (Lugerdoc) Ted Green (THOR) __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-30-2003, 06:53 PM	#3
saxman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 301 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'd say you have damaged threads or a non-original barrel. I'm guessing that somebody down the line knew this, probably doing it themselves, and used Loctite or Super Glue on it just to tighten it up to sell. Your solvent/penetrating lubricants attacked the glue, so now the barrel is loose. Take it to a gunsmith experienced in Lugers. Maybe he can chase the threads and make it work. Above all, do not fire this gun. __________________ You can lead 'em to the water, but you can't make 'em drink.

07-30-2003, 08:36 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Another alternative would be to return the gun to whomever you bought it from... perhaps they would make good on it or at least pay for the work to repair it...? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-31-2003, 03:58 AM	#6
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Jim Keenan: <strong>The Luger barrel is like a rifle barrel, it is screwed into the receiver. Normally, the barrel was screwed in and brought up to the witness mark. If it would not draw up, the shoulder was trimmed a bit; if it drew too far, the shoulder was rolled. Then the short chamber was reamed to get the proper headspace</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">A factual digression must be undertaken here. The witness mark was stamped on the finished pistol, just after front sight adjustment and stamping of the front sight alignment mark, as the last step of inspection before power-proofing. This according to the instructions for marking the P-08, 1910 ("German Small Arms Markings" GÃ?Â¶rtz & Bryans p.111) The actual machining and manufacturing methods for constructing Lugers are obscure, but we can be certain that the barrrels were not "filed-to-fit" as described. --Dwight

07-31-2003, 02:58 AM	#5
Jim Keenan User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 184 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	The Luger barrel is like a rifle barrel, it is screwed into the receiver. Normally, the barrel was screwed in and brought up to the witness mark. If it would not draw up, the shoulder was trimmed a bit; if it drew too far, the shoulder was rolled. Then the short chamber was reamed to get the proper headspace. All of this was just one of the reasons for the high cost of the Luger and the reason the Wehrmacht wanted something cheaper and more reliable. Needless to say, the factory did not use Super Glue or Red Loctite. GL would not have liked that. Jim

07-31-2003, 10:56 PM	#7
saxman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 301 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hey, Jim; I didn't say the factory used Loctite. It wasn't even invented then. It's well known that the Luger manufacturers used no adhesives or sealants of any kind when assembling the barrel to the barrel extension. I was merely speculating on a reason why the barrel could be loose enough to turn by hand, but not loose enough to continue turning by hand to remove. A gun hobbyist or unscrupulous dealer could have done what I said, or perhaps soldered it with soft solder. I guess we'll see if he lets us know what the problem was. __________________ You can lead 'em to the water, but you can't make 'em drink.

08-05-2003, 09:55 PM	#8
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,769 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Rob, check your private messages. George

08-05-2003, 11:28 PM	#9
trigger643 User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Murfreesboro Posts: 502 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	I once purchased a rough P14 for parts. Upon breakdown, plumber's tape had been used to secure the barrel in place. __________________ "There are three reasons to own a gun: To protect yourself and your family, to hunt dangerous and delicious animals, and to keep the King of England out of your face." Ã¢?? Krusty the Clown

08-06-2003, 04:52 AM	#10
Jim Keenan User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 184 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Hi, Dwight and Saxman, I was kidding about factory Loctite use, of course. Golly, Dwight, I guess the Luger people did things altogether different from everyone else. Naturally, I would never think of questioning anything in a book about the Luger. Jim