MIDWEST FIREARMS

the gunman · 02-10-2004, 03:02 PM

Gentleman anyone out there have any feedback on
"Midwest Firearms" .They have a couple of items im
interested in but I cant seem to get an answer to my
emails or my phone calls returned

ESU · 02-10-2004, 03:52 PM

Check your private messages.

the gunman · 02-10-2004, 04:55 PM

THANK YOU

Ron Wood · 02-10-2004, 04:56 PM

You will likely find mixed reviews on this vendor. I have heard some negative reports on items purchased and I have purchased some items myself that were a bit dubious. On the other hand, one of the nicest and most correct scarce Lugers I have obtained was from Midwest and the price was quite reasonable.

the gunman · 02-10-2004, 08:48 PM

Thank you Ron ,There are 3 pieces he has that I am
interested in . what bothers me. As of yet he has not
returned my calls or Emails there a tidy sum involved.
And its quite scary doing business with someone you
get conflicting feed back on .

Edward Tinker · 02-10-2004, 09:35 PM

gunman, then find something else... I mean, if you look long enough, you'll find one better, cheaper and nicer than one of those? Of course, sometimes the wanting of an item wins over our common sense?

Ed

ToggleTop · 02-10-2004, 10:15 PM

I called this establishment several years ago about a K-Date luger. When I inquired about the serial number I was asked if I was a serial number collector. I hung up the phone and will never call again. That's all I know.

Navy · 02-10-2004, 10:26 PM

If you want it bad enough, it can be provided. 'Nuff said.

the gunman · 02-11-2004, 10:12 PM

Gentleman thank you for the imput. As of yet I have still
not received an answer to my Emails on phone calls
on a very pricy 3 piece deal .( whats wrong with this picture) thank you gentleman.Enough said

lugerholsterrepair · 02-12-2004, 12:29 AM

Gunman, Poor communication is generally enough to scare me away from a seller. If it's poor when he's trying to sell, what's it going to be after the sale? Some red flags are hard to ignore. Jerry Burney

Pete Ebbink · 02-12-2004, 12:19 PM

...

Tony S. · 02-12-2004, 05:04 PM

I have to agree with Pete. I have dealt with Ken several times and he has the best return policy that I have ever seen, but because his product has been above what expected, I never had to return anything. His E-bay record is superb and costumer support is above the standard. He may be on the road pretty often, hence tha amount of neat stuff that he has on-hand. Not every seller and/or buyer are alike. Buyers can drive a seller away sometimes just by being to impatience or viseversa (many other factors as well). I thought about this for a while, but I can not justify not adding my positive interaction with Ken. My two cents!
Tony

MauserLugers · 02-12-2004, 05:37 PM

I was asked to examine some K-dates a few years ago for a fellow collector inwhich 2 of 3 were reproductions. The 2 reproduction pieces were purchased from the dealer in question. A couple of weeks later I also got to look at pictures of a K-date navy from another collector which again was a reproduction and from the same dealer in question. The "workmanship" was very nice, but all three of these were not original K-dates and made from scratch. At that time other Mauser navy pieces were also available as were some almost impossible Mauser police variations. Again, this was a couple of years ago and perhaps his policy has changed? -- Bill

George Anderson · 02-12-2004, 06:42 PM

Isuggest that all pay close attention to what Bill has to say.

the gunman · 02-12-2004, 07:04 PM

THE PLOT THICKENS ;NOW IM UP IN THE AIR AGAIN

John Sabato · 02-13-2004, 11:57 AM

I think we have about beat this horse that isn't breathing as much as we can. We could carry on this thread for weeks, but I think the true answer here is the old latin adage:

"Caveat Emptor" (or buyer beware) no matter WHO you are dealing with.

Know exactly WHAT you want to buy and the appropriate genuine characteristics of the piece... get expert advice (here on the forum is the best place I know) on how to properly identify the genuine article anytime you have big money you can't afford to gamble with... If you find an acquisition of opportunity where you have to act or lose out, see if you can give a deposit while you find out the facts... otherwise, I would pass...

There is no answer to all questions...

Be cautious, and be careful, and make sure you understand the terms of return if you find out at a later date that you have been taken advantage of...

just my

Thor · 02-13-2004, 12:13 PM

The first rule I look at is:
1. If it is an expensive Luger, ya better know your stuff about that variation! BUY BOOKS, look at a lot of them. When a person is excited about a minty rare Luger and has the funds available to purchase it he BETTER know what he is buying. Expensive pieces or rare pieces are the most suspect IMO.
2. If they are weapons with the original finish that is now between 50-100 yrs old, the finish will most likely show some brown color under the bluing if exposed to a bright light. If you are going to a gun show take an extremely strong small flash light with you. Take the gun out in the sun if that is possible (if you purchase it)
3. Make sure the seller will take it back if you are not happy with it. Know what the return policy is in advance.
4. Look for wear on the high spots, side plate flat area, sides of muzzle, ends of rails.
5. Look for the appropriate mill markings and direction of factory polish. If you dont know this, learn it before you buy. Look at as many pieces of that variation as possible. This can take many years but will aid you in your over all collecting enjoyment.
6. Look for markings that look professional, stampings will normally show halos as the metal is harden next to the stampings, engravings, dont have this feature. Almost all factory markings are STAMPED.
If you are educated about the gun and the seller will take it back if you dont like it, then go for it, otherwise, put it off until you are ready.
Good luck!

policeluger · 02-13-2004, 01:23 PM

We need to take Thor's post above, print it on laminated wallet size cards and pass them out to everyone we see...I'm sick over seeing aome uninformed buyer get screwed because he believes the dealer to be honest and informed, I can't begin too tell you the lies and crap the "dealers" have tried too pass of on me over the years. I was able to visit and correspond with the likes of Jones and Costanzo, I still have all thier letters, these guys, and more like him where willing too help you learn knowing that it was not a $ profit thing for them but a love of the gun, and thier follow man. If the buyer is too beware, he is too also be informed. Sorry, off the soap box and back to work....

Edward Tinker · 02-13-2004, 02:36 PM

ditto, good thoughts & statements Thor!

ed

Thor · 02-13-2004, 06:01 PM

Got a Luger in today FROM AN INDIVIDUAL CLIENT(Not a dealer), a nice 41 byf. In for replacement of main spring(it really needed it)
Gun has been reblued but WOW, the color is not circa late 1900. All Matching, and honest matched parts, orginal grips, inside of sideplate matches, beautiful original type color of salt bluing, not DARTH VADER black like a modern salt blue(ASK DWIGHT how black that is?). Stamps are SHARP, no rounded edges! NO WEAR on high spots, very very little browning. Gun would fool a lot of Luger collectors that have not seen enough original guns. Dead give aways were:
1. About 1 or 2 levels high polish than byfs are
2. striations on polish are not as evident as most byfs I have seen, and several are in the WRONG direction
3.Red paint and white paint in safety detents.
4. No wear on high spots.
5. Safety has been repainted and doesnt look right

02-10-2004, 03:02 PM	#1
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	MIDWEST FIREARMS Gentleman anyone out there have any feedback on "Midwest Firearms" .They have a couple of items im interested in but I cant seem to get an answer to my emails or my phone calls returned

02-10-2004, 04:56 PM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	You will likely find mixed reviews on this vendor. I have heard some negative reports on items purchased and I have purchased some items myself that were a bit dubious. On the other hand, one of the nicest and most correct scarce Lugers I have obtained was from Midwest and the price was quite reasonable. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

02-10-2004, 09:35 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,910 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	gunman, then find something else... I mean, if you look long enough, you'll find one better, cheaper and nicer than one of those? Of course, sometimes the wanting of an item wins over our common sense? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-10-2004, 10:15 PM	#7
ToggleTop User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: TN Posts: 297 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I called this establishment several years ago about a K-Date luger. When I inquired about the serial number I was asked if I was a serial number collector. I hung up the phone and will never call again. That's all I know. __________________ *********************** ToggleTop************* JustHappenToLoveLugers *************************

02-12-2004, 12:29 AM	#10
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Gunman, Poor communication is generally enough to scare me away from a seller. If it's poor when he's trying to sell, what's it going to be after the sale? Some red flags are hard to ignore. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

02-10-2004, 03:52 PM	#2
ESU User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NY Posts: 57 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Check your private messages.

02-10-2004, 04:55 PM	#3
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	THANK YOU

02-10-2004, 08:48 PM	#5
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	Thank you Ron ,There are 3 pieces he has that I am interested in . what bothers me. As of yet he has not returned my calls or Emails there a tidy sum involved. And its quite scary doing business with someone you get conflicting feed back on .

02-10-2004, 10:26 PM	#8
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	If you want it bad enough, it can be provided. 'Nuff said.

02-11-2004, 10:12 PM	#9
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	Gentleman thank you for the imput. As of yet I have still not received an answer to my Emails on phone calls on a very pricy 3 piece deal .( whats wrong with this picture) thank you gentleman.Enough said

02-12-2004, 12:19 PM	#11
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	...

02-12-2004, 05:04 PM	#12
Tony S. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 173 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have to agree with Pete. I have dealt with Ken several times and he has the best return policy that I have ever seen, but because his product has been above what expected, I never had to return anything. His E-bay record is superb and costumer support is above the standard. He may be on the road pretty often, hence tha amount of neat stuff that he has on-hand. Not every seller and/or buyer are alike. Buyers can drive a seller away sometimes just by being to impatience or viseversa (many other factors as well). I thought about this for a while, but I can not justify not adding my positive interaction with Ken. My two cents! Tony

02-12-2004, 05:37 PM	#13
MauserLugers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Philipsburg, Montana 59858 Posts: 250 Thanks: 0 Thanked 8 Times in 1 Post	I was asked to examine some K-dates a few years ago for a fellow collector inwhich 2 of 3 were reproductions. The 2 reproduction pieces were purchased from the dealer in question. A couple of weeks later I also got to look at pictures of a K-date navy from another collector which again was a reproduction and from the same dealer in question. The "workmanship" was very nice, but all three of these were not original K-dates and made from scratch. At that time other Mauser navy pieces were also available as were some almost impossible Mauser police variations. Again, this was a couple of years ago and perhaps his policy has changed? -- Bill

02-12-2004, 06:42 PM	#14
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,769 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Isuggest that all pay close attention to what Bill has to say.

02-12-2004, 07:04 PM	#15
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	THE PLOT THICKENS ;NOW IM UP IN THE AIR AGAIN

02-13-2004, 11:57 AM	#16
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I think we have about beat this horse that isn't breathing as much as we can. We could carry on this thread for weeks, but I think the true answer here is the old latin adage: "Caveat Emptor" (or buyer beware) no matter WHO you are dealing with. Know exactly WHAT you want to buy and the appropriate genuine characteristics of the piece... get expert advice (here on the forum is the best place I know) on how to properly identify the genuine article anytime you have big money you can't afford to gamble with... If you find an acquisition of opportunity where you have to act or lose out, see if you can give a deposit while you find out the facts... otherwise, I would pass... There is no answer to all questions... Be cautious, and be careful, and make sure you understand the terms of return if you find out at a later date that you have been taken advantage of... just my __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

02-13-2004, 12:13 PM	#17
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	The first rule I look at is: 1. If it is an expensive Luger, ya better know your stuff about that variation! BUY BOOKS, look at a lot of them. When a person is excited about a minty rare Luger and has the funds available to purchase it he BETTER know what he is buying. Expensive pieces or rare pieces are the most suspect IMO. 2. If they are weapons with the original finish that is now between 50-100 yrs old, the finish will most likely show some brown color under the bluing if exposed to a bright light. If you are going to a gun show take an extremely strong small flash light with you. Take the gun out in the sun if that is possible (if you purchase it) 3. Make sure the seller will take it back if you are not happy with it. Know what the return policy is in advance. 4. Look for wear on the high spots, side plate flat area, sides of muzzle, ends of rails. 5. Look for the appropriate mill markings and direction of factory polish. If you dont know this, learn it before you buy. Look at as many pieces of that variation as possible. This can take many years but will aid you in your over all collecting enjoyment. 6. Look for markings that look professional, stampings will normally show halos as the metal is harden next to the stampings, engravings, dont have this feature. Almost all factory markings are STAMPED. If you are educated about the gun and the seller will take it back if you dont like it, then go for it, otherwise, put it off until you are ready. Good luck! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

02-13-2004, 01:23 PM	#18
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	We need to take Thor's post above, print it on laminated wallet size cards and pass them out to everyone we see...I'm sick over seeing aome uninformed buyer get screwed because he believes the dealer to be honest and informed, I can't begin too tell you the lies and crap the "dealers" have tried too pass of on me over the years. I was able to visit and correspond with the likes of Jones and Costanzo, I still have all thier letters, these guys, and more like him where willing too help you learn knowing that it was not a $ profit thing for them but a love of the gun, and thier follow man. If the buyer is too beware, he is too also be informed. Sorry, off the soap box and back to work....

02-13-2004, 02:36 PM	#19
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,910 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	ditto, good thoughts & statements Thor! ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-13-2004, 06:01 PM	#20
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Got a Luger in today FROM AN INDIVIDUAL CLIENT(Not a dealer), a nice 41 byf. In for replacement of main spring(it really needed it) Gun has been reblued but WOW, the color is not circa late 1900. All Matching, and honest matched parts, orginal grips, inside of sideplate matches, beautiful original type color of salt bluing, not DARTH VADER black like a modern salt blue(ASK DWIGHT how black that is?). Stamps are SHARP, no rounded edges! NO WEAR on high spots, very very little browning. Gun would fool a lot of Luger collectors that have not seen enough original guns. Dead give aways were: 1. About 1 or 2 levels high polish than byfs are 2. striations on polish are not as evident as most byfs I have seen, and several are in the WRONG direction 3.Red paint and white paint in safety detents. 4. No wear on high spots. 5. Safety has been repainted and doesnt look right __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."