Erfurt with "M" marking

mrerick · 04-08-2017, 10:55 PM

Today, a friend showed me the Erfurt "1918" date Luger that his father brought back from WW-II Germany.

It has been in the family since his return.

It's all matching with some unusual characteristics. Has anyone seen these before?

There is a capital serif "M" stamped on the left side of the frame above the trigger and covered by the trigger plate. There is also a similar "M" stamped on the top of the trigger itself.
There is a E/6 (Simson) marked rear toggle
There is a unusual Nazi era Eagle over a three letter sequence on the right side of the receiver behind the normal location of acceptance and proof stamps
There is only one Crown over letter acceptance stamp. There are four Crown/RC stamps, with one above the Crown over letter acceptance
The gun is in high condition with all numbered parts correctly matching including the E/6 rear toggle
The rear axle pin is not numbered
The barrel is staked and appears original to the receiver with continuous witness mark

I assume that this was a Simson rework of an Erfurt. It could also be a depot rework using parts sourced from Simson. Are these a known variation / rework program?

Edward Tinker · 04-08-2017, 11:07 PM

You see police with Simson parts - but then I am sure there were armorer replacement kits that were full of Simson parts that were in units or depots - but that is conjecture.

The "M" is a workers marking? I see letters under the side plate fairly often on guns.

Sounds like a 1918 that never made it into service, I have an upper like that.

lugerholsterrepair · 04-09-2017, 11:22 AM

Marc, Is the firing pin fluted?

DonVoigt · 04-09-2017, 11:28 AM

"I assume that this was a Simson rework of an Erfurt. It could also be a depot rework using parts sourced from Simson. Are these a known variation / rework program?"

I would not assume it is a Simson re-work, sounds like an HZa mark on the right chamber, so likely a "depot" re-work.

Known, yes- they have been posted here or the other luger site recently; usually discussing the lack of a complete set of right chamber Imperial proof/acceptance markings.

The receiver sounds like a spare or one assembled after WWI for the first time.

Now questions:
- how is the barrel marked and numbered?
-serial number/suffix?

How about some pictures.

mrerick · 04-09-2017, 05:41 PM

Hi,

I didn't see the firing pin. No tool available at the time.

The barrel was marked with numeric digits only. It had a small Imperial proof eagle stamped at the top.

Sorry, don't have the Serial number. From memory, may have been 6433i "i" suffix. Serial digits and no suffix letter on the barrel, but it did have the 8.84 gauge mark.

The mark on the right of the receiver was very small, and may have been a HzA mark. Definitely a 3rd reich eagle above it.

Finish on the rear E/6 toggle was slightly more flat (not shiny) in appearance than the rest of the cannon.

Considering the number of C/RC marks on the receiver, I like Don's thought on first assembly post WW-I.

I don't have access to the Luger, but will get pix next time I see the owner.

04-08-2017, 10:55 PM	#1
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Erfurt with "M" marking Today, a friend showed me the Erfurt "1918" date Luger that his father brought back from WW-II Germany. It has been in the family since his return. It's all matching with some unusual characteristics. Has anyone seen these before? There is a capital serif "M" stamped on the left side of the frame above the trigger and covered by the trigger plate. There is also a similar "M" stamped on the top of the trigger itself. There is a E/6 (Simson) marked rear toggle There is a unusual Nazi era Eagle over a three letter sequence on the right side of the receiver behind the normal location of acceptance and proof stamps There is only one Crown over letter acceptance stamp. There are four Crown/RC stamps, with one above the Crown over letter acceptance The gun is in high condition with all numbered parts correctly matching including the E/6 rear toggle The rear axle pin is not numbered The barrel is staked and appears original to the receiver with continuous witness mark I assume that this was a Simson rework of an Erfurt. It could also be a depot rework using parts sourced from Simson. Are these a known variation / rework program? __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

04-09-2017, 11:22 AM	#3
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,933 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Marc, Is the firing pin fluted? __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

04-09-2017, 11:28 AM	#4
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	"I assume that this was a Simson rework of an Erfurt. It could also be a depot rework using parts sourced from Simson. Are these a known variation / rework program?" I would not assume it is a Simson re-work, sounds like an HZa mark on the right chamber, so likely a "depot" re-work. Known, yes- they have been posted here or the other luger site recently; usually discussing the lack of a complete set of right chamber Imperial proof/acceptance markings. The receiver sounds like a spare or one assembled after WWI for the first time. Now questions: - how is the barrel marked and numbered? -serial number/suffix? How about some pictures. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

04-09-2017, 05:41 PM	#5
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Hi, I didn't see the firing pin. No tool available at the time. The barrel was marked with numeric digits only. It had a small Imperial proof eagle stamped at the top. Sorry, don't have the Serial number. From memory, may have been 6433i "i" suffix. Serial digits and no suffix letter on the barrel, but it did have the 8.84 gauge mark. The mark on the right of the receiver was very small, and may have been a HzA mark. Definitely a 3rd reich eagle above it. Finish on the rear E/6 toggle was slightly more flat (not shiny) in appearance than the rest of the cannon. Considering the number of C/RC marks on the receiver, I like Don's thought on first assembly post WW-I. I don't have access to the Luger, but will get pix next time I see the owner. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

04-08-2017, 11:07 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	You see police with Simson parts - but then I am sure there were armorer replacement kits that were full of Simson parts that were in units or depots - but that is conjecture. The "M" is a workers marking? I see letters under the side plate fairly often on guns. Sounds like a 1918 that never made it into service, I have an upper like that.