1921 Navy.....HELP!!!

Brandon · 10-03-2002, 05:09 PM

Hi all,
Well, for the first time in about three years a Luger has appeared in a local trading paper!

The Luger is described as a 1921 Navy Luger, 90% condition all nubers match, with a price tag of $1,600.00...

As I am for the most part ignorant in the Navy Luger field, would this be a fair price? I will be paying the owner a call later, what are some questions I should ask? And what should I look for if I decide to go see it?

Thanks for helping out this Newbie!
Best Regards, Brandon

Lugerdoc · 10-04-2002, 07:45 AM

Brandon, Please ask the seller what makes him believe that this is a Naval luger, as I doubt that it will have a 6" barrel with the 2 position rear sight. Tom H.

Navy · 10-04-2002, 08:15 AM

Brandon,

Ask the owner if there are any markings on the grip straps; is there a grip safety, what makes him believe the piece is Navy.

Then, if you like the answers, go visit with a loupe and a mag lite. It might be of some assistance if you read my write up on the Navy I posted yesterday.

Tom A.

Brandon · 10-04-2002, 09:44 AM

Hi again,
I was thinking that it would be one of those 1920's commercial Navys?

I have failed to track down "Wiemar Lugers" by Still, So please forgive my dumb questions... <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />

Thanks for any info!
Brandon...

P.S.What are some good tips on spotting cold bule?

Dwight Gruber · 10-04-2002, 09:47 AM

Guys,

Should this Navy have a large-head rear toggle pin? A good diagnostic, if so...

--Dwight

John Sabato · 10-04-2002, 09:53 AM

Brandon,

Guns that have cold blue applied to them have a distinctive odor to them from the copper sulphate... gun oil is all you should smell. If you smell anything else, be wary of cold blue touchup.

Cold blue solution doesn't cost very much and can be helpful for touching up non-historical firearms. I recommend you buy a bottle and put in on some non-important gun steel just to know what the odor smells like...

Unless I am mistaken, all genuine Navy Lugers will have large head toggle axles... Tom A will know for sure.

Brandon · 10-04-2002, 10:09 AM

John, Thanks for all the cold blue tips! I really appreciate it!

Now what is a large-head rear toggle pin? I know what a rear toggle pin is, I just don't know how to tell the difference between the "large-head" and the "small-head"...

Thanks again, Brandon

John Sabato · 10-04-2002, 10:53 AM

Brandon,

Here is an example from my luger photo archive that shows the difference in size between a Navy toggle axle head (bottom) and a standard size (top)... Glad I could help...

Dwight Gruber · 10-04-2002, 11:08 AM

Brandon,

Once you actually see the large-head Navy toggle axle you will not mistake it. If you have any experience with Lugers at all (and you obviously do) it will plainly be different.

Search this Forum topic on the subject, you will find some pictues which are a bit more illustrative than John's (apologies to JohnS).

--Dwight

John Sabato · 10-04-2002, 11:13 AM

Sorry bout that Dwight & Brandon... they were the first photos I came across and since my photo archive isn't indexed and is over 1600 megabytes I decided that they would have to do since they do illustrate the answer to the questions... I promise to try and do better next time, but I am really swamped today...

Brandon · 10-04-2002, 11:30 AM

Thanks Dwight and John!
I do see the difference between the two examples! I am going to add those pictures plus any others I can find in relation to this subject to my "Luger Photo File" for future reference!

Thanks again!
Brandon...

Edward Tinker · 10-04-2002, 12:58 PM

Cold Bluing added to our FAQ. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Now, a bit more on telling what Navies are and aren't and I will add that too. [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Brandon · 10-04-2002, 03:10 PM

Ed,
You might want to put how to do a "soot lifting" in the FAQ?

Brandon...

Brandon · 10-04-2002, 09:28 PM

Hi all,
Just thought I'd let you all know that the peice in question has already been sold!

Regards,Brandon

Johnny Peppers · 10-04-2002, 09:44 PM

Brandon,
As John indicated, the copper sulfate in cold blue has a very distinctive smell that an original finish pistol should not have. If you have any doubt, rub the area you suspect of being cold blued with your thumb to warm the blueing slightly. The odor will be much more apparent.

Brandon · 10-04-2002, 09:53 PM

Johnny,
Thank you very much for the cold blue tip! It may save my a "burning" down the road!

Best Regards,Brandon

10-03-2002, 05:09 PM	#1
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1921 Navy.....HELP!!! Hi all, Well, for the first time in about three years a Luger has appeared in a local trading paper! The Luger is described as a 1921 Navy Luger, 90% condition all nubers match, with a price tag of $1,600.00... As I am for the most part ignorant in the Navy Luger field, would this be a fair price? I will be paying the owner a call later, what are some questions I should ask? And what should I look for if I decide to go see it? Thanks for helping out this Newbie! Best Regards, Brandon

10-04-2002, 07:45 AM	#2
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Brandon, Please ask the seller what makes him believe that this is a Naval luger, as I doubt that it will have a 6" barrel with the 2 position rear sight. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-04-2002, 09:53 AM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Brandon, Guns that have cold blue applied to them have a distinctive odor to them from the copper sulphate... gun oil is all you should smell. If you smell anything else, be wary of cold blue touchup. Cold blue solution doesn't cost very much and can be helpful for touching up non-historical firearms. I recommend you buy a bottle and put in on some non-important gun steel just to know what the odor smells like... Unless I am mistaken, all genuine Navy Lugers will have large head toggle axles... Tom A will know for sure. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-04-2002, 10:53 AM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Brandon, Here is an example from my luger photo archive that shows the difference in size between a Navy toggle axle head (bottom) and a standard size (top)... Glad I could help... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-04-2002, 11:13 AM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Sorry bout that Dwight & Brandon... they were the first photos I came across and since my photo archive isn't indexed and is over 1600 megabytes I decided that they would have to do since they do illustrate the answer to the questions... I promise to try and do better next time, but I am really swamped today... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-04-2002, 08:15 AM	#3
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Brandon, Ask the owner if there are any markings on the grip straps; is there a grip safety, what makes him believe the piece is Navy. Then, if you like the answers, go visit with a loupe and a mag lite. It might be of some assistance if you read my write up on the Navy I posted yesterday. Tom A.

10-04-2002, 09:44 AM	#4
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi again, I was thinking that it would be one of those 1920's commercial Navys? I have failed to track down "Wiemar Lugers" by Still, So please forgive my dumb questions... <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> Thanks for any info! Brandon... P.S.What are some good tips on spotting cold bule?

10-04-2002, 09:47 AM	#5
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,894 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,288 Times in 426 Posts	Guys, Should this Navy have a large-head rear toggle pin? A good diagnostic, if so... --Dwight

10-04-2002, 10:09 AM	#7
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	John, Thanks for all the cold blue tips! I really appreciate it! Now what is a large-head rear toggle pin? I know what a rear toggle pin is, I just don't know how to tell the difference between the "large-head" and the "small-head"... Thanks again, Brandon

10-04-2002, 11:08 AM	#9
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,894 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,288 Times in 426 Posts	Brandon, Once you actually see the large-head Navy toggle axle you will not mistake it. If you have any experience with Lugers at all (and you obviously do) it will plainly be different. Search this Forum topic on the subject, you will find some pictues which are a bit more illustrative than John's (apologies to JohnS). --Dwight

10-04-2002, 11:30 AM	#11
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Dwight and John! I do see the difference between the two examples! I am going to add those pictures plus any others I can find in relation to this subject to my "Luger Photo File" for future reference! Thanks again! Brandon...

10-04-2002, 12:58 PM	#12
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	Cold Bluing added to our FAQ. [img]smile.gif[/img] Now, a bit more on telling what Navies are and aren't and I will add that too. [img]biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-04-2002, 03:10 PM	#13
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed, You might want to put how to do a "soot lifting" in the FAQ? Brandon...

10-04-2002, 09:28 PM	#14
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi all, Just thought I'd let you all know that the peice in question has already been sold! Regards,Brandon

10-04-2002, 09:44 PM	#15
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Brandon, As John indicated, the copper sulfate in cold blue has a very distinctive smell that an original finish pistol should not have. If you have any doubt, rub the area you suspect of being cold blued with your thumb to warm the blueing slightly. The odor will be much more apparent.

10-04-2002, 09:53 PM	#16
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Johnny, Thank you very much for the cold blue tip! It may save my a "burning" down the road! Best Regards,Brandon