re: midwest firearms

11-30-2001, 12:30 AM

just a note of interest regarding the negative imputs about midwest firearms (aka AA revsport).. i bought two of his lugers from AA couple of weeks ago, and after reading comments here, was expecting the worst....however, both guns were exactly as described or better,,,in fact, a 1910 dated 1908 is the best example ive ever seen.......both were marked XXXX estate, so perhaps he was moving the guns as a group,,,dunno...but, i cant complain, as both guns were genuine and up to snuff.......take this for what its worth, as the next guy may get bitten, but I was pleasantly surprised, and sure have no reason to hold ill will..........

Daniel · 11-30-2001, 11:00 AM

I've bought two lugers from Midwest through Auction Arms and both were exactly as described and he even shipped one in a complimentary gun rug.I find him O.K.

11-30-2001, 01:42 PM

I bought a Police Rig a couple of weeks ago through Auction Arms. It arrived just as described. I would definitely do business with them again.

11-30-2001, 03:33 PM

I've read what has been written about them on P-38 forum and here as well. I can honestly say that I was not disappointed by the 1937 S/42 I purchased. In fact it was better as described. I may have gotten lucky, or they may have changed their business practices. I'm glad I wasn't the only one feeling nervous that I might have been taken. Thanks for your comments! Denny Cox

bill m · 11-30-2001, 04:33 PM

Hi,

Interesting comments. Have had no dealing with him personally, but have examined a couple of his guns, which were "as described", and "all matching", but unfortunately were total counterfiets.

Don · 11-30-2001, 06:31 PM

I bought several Luger parts from him in a EBay auction several months ago -- an artillery receiver, with barrel(including fine tune adustment) and toggle, a fine tune sight adjustment tool, and a Schmeisser stainless mag. Everything appeared as described, except the fine tune front sight was frozen. I broke the tool trying to turn it. Ken Kontos offered give me all my money back for everything --including the tool-- or work out a deal where I'd keep the things I wanted. That was fair. I ended up keeping the toggle and the Schmeisser mag and buying a couple more (in pristine condition)for $125 each. At that time he had perfect feedback on Ebay. What's it look like now and on AA?

Doug · 11-30-2001, 10:27 PM

Several months ago I was asked by a friend to sell some M-1 Carbines on Auction Arms. I was going to make a commission if they sold. I am not a carbine collector but took his description and posted. The guns were beautiful and to me looked original. When I had a question as to a guarantee of originality I asked the owner. At this time I was told that the guns had been refinished and restored. I was not happy and closed the auctions. So maybe Revshop sold consignment guns and was not told of any forgery's being done. I will say that I have never bought anything from him , but it is something to think about.

bill m · 12-01-2001, 12:09 AM

What level of Luger collectors are buying from Midwest?

12-01-2001, 01:06 AM

oh,,,i dont know bill.....what level do you consider yourself to be?

12-01-2001, 08:16 AM

bill m · 12-01-2001, 11:17 AM

Hi,

A level that wants original, non-messed with merchandize. No touch ups, alterations, or made up stuff.

Johnny Peppers · 12-01-2001, 12:03 PM

The touched up, reblued, or out and out faked pistols are not in the shooter category. Some are very high priced, and are out and out fraud.

Several years back I had the chance to examine a 1900 Bulgarian which is extremely rare in original condition. The pistol was brought to a friend of mine for evaluation. First, the pistol which was in 98/99% condition did not pass the Mini-Maglite test as there was no oxidation under the finish. OK, maybe it had been stored heavily oiled since it's day of manufacture. The pistol was then gone over with a lighted 10X magnifier and several tiny areas of pitting were found that were blued over. These could not be seen with the naked eye. My friend and I both agreed that it was not correct, and probably wasn't even an original Bulgarian. The pistol was priced at $8000, and against our advice was bought anyway. The pistol was shown to Charles Kenyon a few years back and he pointed out a mistake in the safety marking. These fakes are very good and very very hard to distinguish, and above all are not cheap. If you are going to spend your hard earned money, be sure of what you are getting no matter what your level of expertise is.

Thor · 12-01-2001, 01:10 PM

Again-thanks for encouraging us to go buy (a cheap investment) a mini mag light before we hit the gun shows. I heard a guy tell me once, "Yep, I take any Luger I buy out into the sunlight to check for oxidation under the bluing, (and this is the backwards part) I WON'T buy any Luger that shows OXIDATION under the bluing" indicating he felt it was a sign of poor storage or something. Man, did he get it backwards. I have examined some Lugers that showed some oxidation on the frame, barrel, receiver, but strangely enough the toggle assembly looked very new with no oxidation showing. When you viewed the pistol in weaker light it all looked great and matching. I was sure the toggle assembly had been reblued. When you switch on that light, check the sellers expression, if he rolls his eyes or grimaces, you can probably just switch it off and move on to the next table! ~Thor~

12-01-2001, 01:36 PM

yep,,,,,,is why i wrote the caveat to the next buyer

Big Norm · 12-01-2001, 03:14 PM

Boy Johnny have you got it right. A year ago I bought a 1906 Swiss "Cross in Shield" from Doug Smith of FGS. His price was on the low side of the range for a good gun. But I fell in love with it. Emotion ruled. The strawing was beautiful and the bluing looked great. I knew that the Swiss know how to take care of their guns. Afterward I talked to Ralph Shattuck (he had looked at it before I got interested) and he mentioned that the front and rear straps showed a lot of wear. I took the gun outside in the daylight and sure enough, there was wear on the straps that looked inconsistant with the rest of the gun. To this day I am unhappy with the gun but I am still not sure. There is just no one available locally to look at this gun to evaluate this gun impartially. I showed the gun to Jerry Peters and he felt that the gun was OK. But we were both looking at it in less then good light. Jerry made me feel better, but I am still unsure.

The trouble with buying high end collector quality Lugers is that a knowlegable second opinion is not often readily available. And, regretably, all too often, emotion rules.

Right now, I and anguishing on a 1906 Russian that has been expertly restored (?). The price, while high in numbers, is good. I have passed on it, but I have lost a lot of sleep on it since it is still available. Big Norm

11-30-2001, 12:30 AM	#1
bh Guest Posts: n/a	re: midwest firearms just a note of interest regarding the negative imputs about midwest firearms (aka AA revsport).. i bought two of his lugers from AA couple of weeks ago, and after reading comments here, was expecting the worst....however, both guns were exactly as described or better,,,in fact, a 1910 dated 1908 is the best example ive ever seen.......both were marked XXXX estate, so perhaps he was moving the guns as a group,,,dunno...but, i cant complain, as both guns were genuine and up to snuff.......take this for what its worth, as the next guy may get bitten, but I was pleasantly surprised, and sure have no reason to hold ill will..........

11-30-2001, 11:00 AM	#2
Daniel User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ct. and Ma. Posts: 152 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: re: midwest firearms I've bought two lugers from Midwest through Auction Arms and both were exactly as described and he even shipped one in a complimentary gun rug.I find him O.K.

11-30-2001, 01:42 PM	#3
tracy p Guest Posts: n/a	Re: re: midwest firearms I bought a Police Rig a couple of weeks ago through Auction Arms. It arrived just as described. I would definitely do business with them again.

11-30-2001, 03:33 PM	#4
Denny Cox Guest Posts: n/a	Re: re: midwest firearms I've read what has been written about them on P-38 forum and here as well. I can honestly say that I was not disappointed by the 1937 S/42 I purchased. In fact it was better as described. I may have gotten lucky, or they may have changed their business practices. I'm glad I wasn't the only one feeling nervous that I might have been taken. Thanks for your comments! Denny Cox

11-30-2001, 04:33 PM	#5
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: re: midwest firearms Hi, Interesting comments. Have had no dealing with him personally, but have examined a couple of his guns, which were "as described", and "all matching", but unfortunately were total counterfiets.

11-30-2001, 06:31 PM	#6
Don User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 146 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: re: midwest firearms I bought several Luger parts from him in a EBay auction several months ago -- an artillery receiver, with barrel(including fine tune adustment) and toggle, a fine tune sight adjustment tool, and a Schmeisser stainless mag. Everything appeared as described, except the fine tune front sight was frozen. I broke the tool trying to turn it. Ken Kontos offered give me all my money back for everything --including the tool-- or work out a deal where I'd keep the things I wanted. That was fair. I ended up keeping the toggle and the Schmeisser mag and buying a couple more (in pristine condition)for $125 each. At that time he had perfect feedback on Ebay. What's it look like now and on AA?

11-30-2001, 10:27 PM	#7
Doug User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: USA Posts: 168 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here's Something to Think About. Several months ago I was asked by a friend to sell some M-1 Carbines on Auction Arms. I was going to make a commission if they sold. I am not a carbine collector but took his description and posted. The guns were beautiful and to me looked original. When I had a question as to a guarantee of originality I asked the owner. At this time I was told that the guns had been refinished and restored. I was not happy and closed the auctions. So maybe Revshop sold consignment guns and was not told of any forgery's being done. I will say that I have never bought anything from him , but it is something to think about.

12-01-2001, 12:09 AM	#8
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here's Something to Think About. What level of Luger collectors are buying from Midwest?

12-01-2001, 01:06 AM	#9
bh Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Here's Something to Think About. oh,,,i dont know bill.....what level do you consider yourself to be?

12-01-2001, 08:16 AM	#10
Denny Cox Guest Posts: n/a	Good Question, bh! (EOM) (EOM)

12-01-2001, 11:17 AM	#11
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Level Hi, A level that wants original, non-messed with merchandize. No touch ups, alterations, or made up stuff.

12-01-2001, 12:03 PM	#12
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Level The touched up, reblued, or out and out faked pistols are not in the shooter category. Some are very high priced, and are out and out fraud. Several years back I had the chance to examine a 1900 Bulgarian which is extremely rare in original condition. The pistol was brought to a friend of mine for evaluation. First, the pistol which was in 98/99% condition did not pass the Mini-Maglite test as there was no oxidation under the finish. OK, maybe it had been stored heavily oiled since it's day of manufacture. The pistol was then gone over with a lighted 10X magnifier and several tiny areas of pitting were found that were blued over. These could not be seen with the naked eye. My friend and I both agreed that it was not correct, and probably wasn't even an original Bulgarian. The pistol was priced at $8000, and against our advice was bought anyway. The pistol was shown to Charles Kenyon a few years back and he pointed out a mistake in the safety marking. These fakes are very good and very very hard to distinguish, and above all are not cheap. If you are going to spend your hard earned money, be sure of what you are getting no matter what your level of expertise is.

12-01-2001, 01:10 PM	#13
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Level Again-thanks for encouraging us to go buy (a cheap investment) a mini mag light before we hit the gun shows. I heard a guy tell me once, "Yep, I take any Luger I buy out into the sunlight to check for oxidation under the bluing, (and this is the backwards part) I WON'T buy any Luger that shows OXIDATION under the bluing" indicating he felt it was a sign of poor storage or something. Man, did he get it backwards. I have examined some Lugers that showed some oxidation on the frame, barrel, receiver, but strangely enough the toggle assembly looked very new with no oxidation showing. When you viewed the pistol in weaker light it all looked great and matching. I was sure the toggle assembly had been reblued. When you switch on that light, check the sellers expression, if he rolls his eyes or grimaces, you can probably just switch it off and move on to the next table! ~Thor~

12-01-2001, 01:36 PM	#14
bh Guest Posts: n/a	Re: re: midwest firearms yep,,,,,,is why i wrote the caveat to the next buyer

12-01-2001, 03:14 PM	#15
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Level Boy Johnny have you got it right. A year ago I bought a 1906 Swiss "Cross in Shield" from Doug Smith of FGS. His price was on the low side of the range for a good gun. But I fell in love with it. Emotion ruled. The strawing was beautiful and the bluing looked great. I knew that the Swiss know how to take care of their guns. Afterward I talked to Ralph Shattuck (he had looked at it before I got interested) and he mentioned that the front and rear straps showed a lot of wear. I took the gun outside in the daylight and sure enough, there was wear on the straps that looked inconsistant with the rest of the gun. To this day I am unhappy with the gun but I am still not sure. There is just no one available locally to look at this gun to evaluate this gun impartially. I showed the gun to Jerry Peters and he felt that the gun was OK. But we were both looking at it in less then good light. Jerry made me feel better, but I am still unsure. The trouble with buying high end collector quality Lugers is that a knowlegable second opinion is not often readily available. And, regretably, all too often, emotion rules. Right now, I and anguishing on a 1906 Russian that has been expertly restored (?). The price, while high in numbers, is good. I have passed on it, but I have lost a lot of sleep on it since it is still available. Big Norm