1937 S/42 Drilled barrel ... why?

ChrisLL · 01-28-2014, 10:00 AM

Hi folks,

A few years ago after my uncle died, I was given this Luger as my Uncle (knowing I love guns) "wanted me to have it".

I take it out every now and again and look at it, oil it, etc. these are cool guns. I don't know the history behind the gun. It is worn in terms of bluing and has some pitting on the barrel. The serial numbers all match, and inside the gun seems fine (admittedly I am no Luger expert or gunsmith). But near the chamber end of the barrel about 1/2" in front of the flare/threaded portion it was drilled across the barrel horizontally (about 1/8" hole) clear through both side of the barrel.

I brought it to a gunsmith yesterday, but turns out he doesn't know much about Lugers. Of course in a gun shop when you bring in an old gun a group gathers around and everyone has an opinion (usually), and no one knew why a barrel would be drilled like this, or had ever seen this. One person felt that the gun had been "demilitarized" in this fashion.

For the most part the gun is complete, firing pin is there, etc. The two parts that are missing: mainspring and mainspring guide (maybe that helps solve the mystery?).

What do I want to do with the gun?
1) Would like to know if possible why the barrel is drilled.
2) If I could have the barrel replaced and shoot a few rounds from it, that would be awesome.
3) If it is not in (after barrel replacement) fire-able condition that would be OK (though not my preference); it's a piece that belonged to my uncle which I would want to keep, and my son has said he would love it some day as well (shootable or not).
4) Not looking to sell it, or for that matter restore it.

Any thoughts about this would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Chris

DavidJayUden · 01-28-2014, 11:50 AM

Photos will help, if nothing more than to satisfy our curiousity and start conversation...
Why was it drilled? I have no idea other than to make the gun harmless.
If you are not looking to sell or restore it, consider simply leaving it as-is, and buying a shooter Luger, which you can sell off once you are done with it. You'll probably end up sinking in more than you expect getting that one in shooting shape, and you can usually buy, then sell, a shooter at very little loss, or even small profit.
But please, send some photos.
dju

ChrisLL · 01-28-2014, 12:32 PM

Well, thanks for the thoughts, but if I buy another Luger is another issue I guess. This one has sentimental value and I would like it to be "all that it can be". If that means it cannot be shot, I will still install the two missing pieces so the action functions when handled, and that's fine. Not sure they will help much as they show a Luger with a hole drilled through the barrel, but here goes:

sheepherder · 01-28-2014, 12:35 PM

Mainspring & mainspring guide missing...that's kind of odd; if you were going to make it 'unfireable' then the firing pin, spring, and guide would be more accessible and reasonable to remove...

But I suppose you could replace them and have an 'operable' pistol...Now, the barrel...yes, it's [fairly] easy to replace...But then it's not matching, but should be 'fireable'...

Hmmmm...Could you shoot it with the holes in the barrel??? that's an interesting question...gas would vent and probably drop bullet velocity/travel down considerably...Possibly even 'squib' [bullet never leaves barrel]...And there would be lots of debris from burning powder, maybe some bullet jacket slivers, vent out the holes...Dangerous to anybody to the side...But revolvers function with openings before the barrel, so it's possible...

Strange way to demil a Luger...

ChrisLL · 01-28-2014, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Mainspring & mainspring guide missing...that's kind of odd; if you were going to make it 'unfireable' then the firing pin, spring, and guide would be more accessible and reasonable to remove...

But I suppose you could replace them and have an 'operable' pistol...Now, the barrel...yes, it's [fairly] easy to replace...But then it's not matching, but should be 'fireable'...

Hmmmm...Could you shoot it with the holes in the barrel??? that's an interesting question...gas would vent and probably drop bullet velocity/travel down considerably...Possibly even 'squib' [bullet never leaves barrel]...And there would be lots of debris from burning powder, maybe some bullet jacket slivers, vent out the holes...Dangerous to anybody to the side...But revolvers function with openings before the barrel, so it's possible...

Strange way to demil a Luger...

That's exactly what I thought ("strange way to demil ...") and expected upon disassembly to have a missing firing pin, etc. but that's all there. "Could you shoot it with the holes in the barrel?" - huh, that's too funny, we had that same discussion at the gunsmith's shop, came to about the same conclusion. Personally, I don't want to fire any guns with holes such as this, but maybe you could get away with it.

From a safety point of view ... with a new barrel, what would make a gun like this unsafe (assuming that the action functions normally)?

Maybe the right question there is ... Do you know a reputable Luger gunsmith in the Northeast (I am in Vermont) that could determine if this pistol is safe to fire (after a new barrel)? . I do know one excellent gunsmith but I have not spoken with him as yet, not sure if he is interested in working on a Luger or has any experience with them.

I don't see this ever being a valuable collector's item (although it would look pretty decent with a reblue) so I am not too concerned about a non-matching barrel. I kind of like it as-is with the wear and tear. I do have the grips by the way which are in pretty nice shape, I decided to leave them off until the spring/guide are replaced though.

Chris

ithacaartist · 01-28-2014, 01:49 PM

Another possibility is to have the holes welded back full. If the weld stops short of the internal lands and grooves, it would shoot as well as a revolver, anyway, without a path for extranea to escape the barrel to the sides. One could theoretically go all the way with the weld, but then take care that the lands and grooves are re-established properly. One might also have the existing barrel bored out and sleeved, then fill with weld down to the outsidde of the liner. Either of the last two methods would retain the matching number state of the barrel. It might need a little touch-up of the finish in the area repaired.

ChrisLL · 01-28-2014, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Another possibility is to have the holes welded back full. If the weld stops short of the internal lands and grooves, it would shoot as well as a revolver, anyway, without a path for extranea to escape the barrel to the sides. One could theoretically go all the way with the weld, but then take care that the lands and grooves are re-established properly. One might also have the existing barrel bored out and sleeved, then fill with weld down to the outsidde of the liner. Either of the last two methods would retain the matching number state of the barrel. It might need a little touch-up of the finish in the area repaired.

I wondered about that. I guess my only concern would be cost, seems like a liner and welds would cost more than a barrel (but maybe not?).

sheepherder · 01-28-2014, 02:18 PM

Welding is an idea; the lands & grooves could be left untouched by putting a copper rod down the barrel and then TIG/MIG welding it (the weld won't adhere to copper). But then you need to dress it and re-blue it...

A new barrel is probably the best idea, if you don't care about matching. I've had the thought that 'pulls' [removed used barrels] should be right at $100, but I paid more than that for one a few weeks back and looking at GB/eBay I'm seeing up to $200...

Edward Tinker · 01-28-2014, 03:03 PM

I would swap the barrel, keep the old barrel and then replace the parts - then have it checked by a gunsmith who knows lugers to see if they can get it firing safely - personally I would think yes. I would not have just anybody swap out a luger barrel unless they have done it before...

sounds like a easy way to have made it seem unfireable by someone - you see some guns used to have holes in the barrel to show they were demilled

John Sabato · 01-28-2014, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Another possibility is to have the holes welded back full. If the weld stops short of the internal lands and grooves, it would shoot as well as a revolver, anyway, without a path for extranea to escape the barrel to the sides. One could theoretically go all the way with the weld, but then take care that the lands and grooves are re-established properly.

this suggestion is strongly and definitely NOT recommended.

If you want to shoot this one, get the missing parts AND the barrel replaced. There are plenty of folks on this forum who have the tools and expertise to change the barrel. Changing a Luger barrel is not a job for your local gunsmith who doesn't know much about Lugers. You will likely end up with a twisted upper receiver. When you are ready to change the barrel, post a request here, and someone who is knowledgeable and tooled for the job will help you.

Arizona Slim · 01-28-2014, 03:23 PM

[QUOTE=Edward Tinker;248766]I would swap the barrel, keep the old barrel and then replace the parts - then have it checked by a gunsmith who knows lugers to see if they can get it firing safely - personally I would think yes. I would not have just anybody swap out a luger barrel unless they have done it before...

You might want to consider contacting G.T. @
http://forum.lugerforum.com/member.php?u=20, or gctomek@msn.com,

I believe he has the parts available that you need, plus he can swap out the barrel and check it over for any safety issues that it may have. He does excellent work and is above reproach.

Lon

rhuff · 01-28-2014, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arizona Slim

[

You might want to consider contacting G.T. @
http://forum.lugerforum.com/member.php?u=20, or gctomek@msn.com,

I believe he has the parts available that you need, plus he can swap out the barrel and check it over for any safety issues that it may have. He does excellent work and is above reproach.

Lon

What he said ^^^^^^. This is the avenue that I would explore if that Luger were mine, and I wanted to make it "whole". We, on this forum, know that GT can fix that Luger.

alanint · 01-28-2014, 05:00 PM

My guess is that the holes were drilled to be able to place and weld a slightly smaller diameter bar across the bore so that you could not chamber a round. The positioning of the holes would tend to bear this out. For some reason, it was never done.

mrerick · 01-28-2014, 05:01 PM

Hello Chris, and welcome to the forum.

Another vote for: Do not repair the damaged barrel. Replace it. Acquire the missing parts and you should end up with a nice shooter and family heirloom.

An experienced Luger gunsmith should also take a good look over the rest of the Luger to make sure that there hasn't been further damage. It's likely that the hole is a result of an amateur attempt to demil the gun. Perhaps a family member that didn't like "something dangerous" being around the house. Of course, this created something more dangerous... at least until properly repaired.

Once it has been repaired and gone over, you should have a functional firearm. Take the time to get to know how a Luger operates, and how to properly clean and care for it. The replacement barrel eliminates reduces it from a collectible firearm to a shooter grade, so go ahead and shoot it. Just use standard velocity 9mm Luger ammo with 115gn or 124gn bullets. No "Nato" or "+P" rounds...

Marc

ChrisLL · 01-28-2014, 10:00 PM

So thanks to everyone for the input! As I see it, it isn't much of a collectible as is, and I would not get rid of it anyway, so I think assuming the rest of the gun is OK I think a new barrel would probably be the way to go.

That said, I know in situations like these that there isn't always just one correct answer so I do appreciate everyone's thoughts. Step one I guess will be getting and installing the missing parts and then getting it checked-out and possibly a new barrel. Thanks again.

Chris

G.T. · 01-29-2014, 12:08 AM

Welcome to the forum! I have sent you a private mail outlining some of the basic things I can do for you... There are several members here that can provide the services you need, all are very capable... Good luck with your project, let me know if I can be of any further service... best to you, til...lat'r....GT...

Sergio Natali · 01-29-2014, 06:30 AM

Very simply, to me it looks like a "homemade" deactivation.
In any case I would not weld back anything, keep as it is, full stop.

ithacaartist · 01-29-2014, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Sabato

this suggestion is strongly and definitely NOT recommended.

Yes, not for the faint of heart, and probably cost-prohibitive compared to the swap. Numbers match, but it's already a shooter due to this issue. Best case, restoring the original barrel, would result in a restored shooter, but a shooter nonetheless. The approach I detailed is extreme, and fraught with liability issues for anyone who would/could do it professionally. This is something a qualified tech/smith might do for a personal pistol, but perhaps too risky a job otherwise take on.

Sorry, didn't man to take suggestions into la-la land, but I'm happiest when no stone has been left un-turned. Didn't want to leave out a feasible possibility...but, bottom line, it's best to consider the caveats!

sheepherder · 01-29-2014, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Yes, not for the faint of heart...The approach I detailed is extreme, and fraught with liability issues...

Especially for this forum...

I would do it, if it were mine and I cared about keeping it original. I don't consider it an extreme repair.

An acquaintance of mine once had a nickel plated .357 Colt Python revolver that shaved bullets every time it fired...You could see the copper/lead shooting sideways out of the cylinder to barrel gap...He wanted to correct it, but the timing seemed OK...I told him that re-cutting the forcing cone should help, but he never 'got around to it'...

MikeP · 01-29-2014, 04:26 PM

The barrel is ruint and not fixable. Replace it and the other parts and you got a nice pistol.
I have seen guns DEWATTED by drilling and putting a rod in place as mentioned.
You never know what former some former owner got inspired over to do this.

01-28-2014, 10:00 AM	#1
ChrisLL User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: New England Posts: 70 Thanks: 79 Thanked 28 Times in 19 Posts	1937 S/42 Drilled barrel ... why? Hi folks, A few years ago after my uncle died, I was given this Luger as my Uncle (knowing I love guns) "wanted me to have it". I take it out every now and again and look at it, oil it, etc. these are cool guns. I don't know the history behind the gun. It is worn in terms of bluing and has some pitting on the barrel. The serial numbers all match, and inside the gun seems fine (admittedly I am no Luger expert or gunsmith). But near the chamber end of the barrel about 1/2" in front of the flare/threaded portion it was drilled across the barrel horizontally (about 1/8" hole) clear through both side of the barrel. I brought it to a gunsmith yesterday, but turns out he doesn't know much about Lugers. Of course in a gun shop when you bring in an old gun a group gathers around and everyone has an opinion (usually), and no one knew why a barrel would be drilled like this, or had ever seen this. One person felt that the gun had been "demilitarized" in this fashion. For the most part the gun is complete, firing pin is there, etc. The two parts that are missing: mainspring and mainspring guide (maybe that helps solve the mystery?). What do I want to do with the gun? 1) Would like to know if possible why the barrel is drilled. 2) If I could have the barrel replaced and shoot a few rounds from it, that would be awesome. 3) If it is not in (after barrel replacement) fire-able condition that would be OK (though not my preference); it's a piece that belonged to my uncle which I would want to keep, and my son has said he would love it some day as well (shootable or not). 4) Not looking to sell it, or for that matter restore it. Any thoughts about this would be much appreciated. Thanks, Chris

01-28-2014, 12:32 PM	#3
ChrisLL User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: New England Posts: 70 Thanks: 79 Thanked 28 Times in 19 Posts	Well, thanks for the thoughts, but if I buy another Luger is another issue I guess. This one has sentimental value and I would like it to be "all that it can be". If that means it cannot be shot, I will still install the two missing pieces so the action functions when handled, and that's fine. Not sure they will help much as they show a Luger with a hole drilled through the barrel, but here goes: Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

01-28-2014, 12:35 PM	#4
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	Mainspring & mainspring guide missing...that's kind of odd; if you were going to make it 'unfireable' then the firing pin, spring, and guide would be more accessible and reasonable to remove... But I suppose you could replace them and have an 'operable' pistol...Now, the barrel...yes, it's [fairly] easy to replace...But then it's not matching, but should be 'fireable'... Hmmmm...Could you shoot it with the holes in the barrel??? that's an interesting question...gas would vent and probably drop bullet velocity/travel down considerably...Possibly even 'squib' [bullet never leaves barrel]...And there would be lots of debris from burning powder, maybe some bullet jacket slivers, vent out the holes...Dangerous to anybody to the side...But revolvers function with openings before the barrel, so it's possible... Strange way to demil a Luger... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

01-28-2014, 01:49 PM	#6
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,284 Thanks: 7,013 Thanked 2,478 Times in 1,320 Posts	Another possibility is to have the holes welded back full. If the weld stops short of the internal lands and grooves, it would shoot as well as a revolver, anyway, without a path for extranea to escape the barrel to the sides. One could theoretically go all the way with the weld, but then take care that the lands and grooves are re-established properly. One might also have the existing barrel bored out and sleeved, then fill with weld down to the outsidde of the liner. Either of the last two methods would retain the matching number state of the barrel. It might need a little touch-up of the finish in the area repaired. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

01-28-2014, 02:18 PM	#8
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	Welding is an idea; the lands & grooves could be left untouched by putting a copper rod down the barrel and then TIG/MIG welding it (the weld won't adhere to copper). But then you need to dress it and re-blue it... A new barrel is probably the best idea, if you don't care about matching. I've had the thought that 'pulls' [removed used barrels] should be right at $100, but I paid more than that for one a few weeks back and looking at GB/eBay I'm seeing up to $200... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

01-28-2014, 11:50 AM	#2
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Photos will help, if nothing more than to satisfy our curiousity and start conversation... Why was it drilled? I have no idea other than to make the gun harmless. If you are not looking to sell or restore it, consider simply leaving it as-is, and buying a shooter Luger, which you can sell off once you are done with it. You'll probably end up sinking in more than you expect getting that one in shooting shape, and you can usually buy, then sell, a shooter at very little loss, or even small profit. But please, send some photos. dju

01-28-2014, 03:03 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,911 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	I would swap the barrel, keep the old barrel and then replace the parts - then have it checked by a gunsmith who knows lugers to see if they can get it firing safely - personally I would think yes. I would not have just anybody swap out a luger barrel unless they have done it before... sounds like a easy way to have made it seem unfireable by someone - you see some guns used to have holes in the barrel to show they were demilled __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-28-2014, 03:23 PM	#11
Arizona Slim Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 706 Thanks: 1,026 Thanked 409 Times in 225 Posts	[QUOTE=Edward Tinker;248766]I would swap the barrel, keep the old barrel and then replace the parts - then have it checked by a gunsmith who knows lugers to see if they can get it firing safely - personally I would think yes. I would not have just anybody swap out a luger barrel unless they have done it before... You might want to consider contacting G.T. @ http://forum.lugerforum.com/member.php?u=20, or gctomek@msn.com, I believe he has the parts available that you need, plus he can swap out the barrel and check it over for any safety issues that it may have. He does excellent work and is above reproach. Lon

01-28-2014, 05:00 PM	#13
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	My guess is that the holes were drilled to be able to place and weld a slightly smaller diameter bar across the bore so that you could not chamber a round. The positioning of the holes would tend to bear this out. For some reason, it was never done.

01-28-2014, 05:01 PM	#14
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Hello Chris, and welcome to the forum. Another vote for: Do not repair the damaged barrel. Replace it. Acquire the missing parts and you should end up with a nice shooter and family heirloom. An experienced Luger gunsmith should also take a good look over the rest of the Luger to make sure that there hasn't been further damage. It's likely that the hole is a result of an amateur attempt to demil the gun. Perhaps a family member that didn't like "something dangerous" being around the house. Of course, this created something more dangerous... at least until properly repaired. Once it has been repaired and gone over, you should have a functional firearm. Take the time to get to know how a Luger operates, and how to properly clean and care for it. The replacement barrel eliminates reduces it from a collectible firearm to a shooter grade, so go ahead and shoot it. Just use standard velocity 9mm Luger ammo with 115gn or 124gn bullets. No "Nato" or "+P" rounds... Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

01-28-2014, 10:00 PM	#15
ChrisLL User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: New England Posts: 70 Thanks: 79 Thanked 28 Times in 19 Posts	So thanks to everyone for the input! As I see it, it isn't much of a collectible as is, and I would not get rid of it anyway, so I think assuming the rest of the gun is OK I think a new barrel would probably be the way to go. That said, I know in situations like these that there isn't always just one correct answer so I do appreciate everyone's thoughts. Step one I guess will be getting and installing the missing parts and then getting it checked-out and possibly a new barrel. Thanks again. Chris

01-29-2014, 12:08 AM	#16
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,486 Thanks: 1,283 Thanked 3,583 Times in 989 Posts	Hi Chris! Welcome to the forum! I have sent you a private mail outlining some of the basic things I can do for you... There are several members here that can provide the services you need, all are very capable... Good luck with your project, let me know if I can be of any further service... best to you, til...lat'r....GT...

01-29-2014, 06:30 AM	#17
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Very simply, to me it looks like a "homemade" deactivation. In any case I would not weld back anything, keep as it is, full stop. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

01-29-2014, 04:26 PM	#20
MikeP User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ILL Posts: 686 Thanks: 36 Thanked 452 Times in 198 Posts	The barrel is ruint and not fixable. Replace it and the other parts and you got a nice pistol. I have seen guns DEWATTED by drilling and putting a rod in place as mentioned. You never know what former some former owner got inspired over to do this.