1917 Artillery help?

Cheesemaker · 08-14-2013, 10:45 AM

Hi, I'm new to the Luger world. But last week I was thrust into the world of the Luger. I knew they were out there, seen them in pictures, movies, and behind glass. But I never thought I would have one in my presence. EVER!!

I was given some firearms by my step dad, and he thought the Luger was worth a couple hundred dollars. He didn't do his research.

So, I'm researching on what I have.

It's a 1917 stamped Luger with the DWM stamping, in really good condition. But the numbers don't match. I've been trying to get it valued, but all the magazines, Blue Books, and such, give it a high value, but!! How much does it knock down in value vs. a all matching numbered firearm in similar condition?

Thank you for your help.
Cheesemaker!!

Arizona Slim · 08-14-2013, 12:08 PM

Welcome to the forum Ryan, the very first thing the members will tell you is to post lots of good clear photos at all angels. Your 1917 artillery in good condition but with mixed numbers would probably be valued in the $1000.00 to $1400.00 range rather than in the area of $200.00 and probably more. Please post your photos as soon as possible and more knowledgeable members then I can give you a better idea as to the value of your pistol. Again, welcome to the forum.

Lon

lugerholsterrepair · 08-14-2013, 07:16 PM

Depending on so many variable I agree with Lon..around $1200 as a shooter.

Cheesemaker · 08-15-2013, 01:28 AM

Thank you, I will get some pictures up as soon as I can. I appreciate your help. I've been on a local firearms forum, and I didn't want to post up what I have, because they are vultures. What I've seen on this forum, everybody seems real helpful.

cirelaw · 08-15-2013, 10:58 AM

How can you be sure a shooter is safe to fire?

Arizona Slim · 08-15-2013, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

How can you be sure a shooter is safe to fire?

I don't think there is any sure way to be certain that a nearly 100 year old firearm is safe to shoot, but to help put the odds in your favor it would certainly be helpful to have it examined by a competent gunsmith with knowledge of Luger's, but of course that is still not a guarantee that your pistol is safe to shoot.

Lon

wlyon · 08-15-2013, 11:14 AM

By careful inspection. If you question your ability to inspect take it to a reliable gunsmith. Use proper ammo and wear eye protection. Fire only one round and carefully inspect the fired case. Look for any deformity and especially inspect the primer. Firing any firearm especially old ones is a crap shoot. Do your homework. Bill

DavidJayUden · 08-15-2013, 11:20 AM

Examine the gun closely for cracks in the metal, especially on the upper half, a sign of pending disaster. And be certain that the bore is clear.
dju

Cheesemaker · 08-16-2013, 01:00 AM

Here's some photos, they aren't that great, but all I have right now.

I plan on getting a gunsmith to look over the barrel for me for sure. Step dad said the last time he shot it, it double fired on him. (Which is common from my readings) That was little over 25 years ago. So, its been in the closet for all that time, in a case. But a little research says that a gunsmith could hone the sear engagement, and take care of that.

But all I want is 3 rounds. One single first shot, and then 2 after that, to make sure it cycles properly. And that is it for me. If I still have a hand after the first shot!!

I have a co-worker that is very interested in it, and has owned 3 Lugers, before his divorce. And still has some ammo for it. And he is willing to take it down and make sure all the internals are in good shape, and we will do a cleaning on it.

Thank you for your help.

alanint · 08-16-2013, 05:08 AM

You don't show the serial number on the front of the frame, but if it has a "77" in it, then your entire lower frame and sideplate come from a DWM Police rework pistol, to which someone added an artillery barrel and top receiver, which has a further mismatched toggle.

Your pistol is made up of parts from at least three guns.

kzullick · 08-16-2013, 09:40 AM

Does this pistol have the "notch" in the receiver for the rear sight? I'm not seeing it in the pictures.

lugerholsterrepair · 08-16-2013, 02:46 PM

But a little research says that a gunsmith could hone the sear engagement, and take care of that.
Finding a LUGER gunsmith is most important. The firing sequence is like no other. Fire the weapon after you are satisfied with it's ability to send a round downrange but BEFORE you let some gun monkey HONE the sear! Let the wrong guy mess with this pile of parts and you might be worse off than before.
It also has a Police sideplate notched at the top.

alanint · 08-16-2013, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kzullick

Does this pistol have the "notch" in the receiver for the rear sight? I'm not seeing it in the pictures.

Although the notch is not readily visible, we can assume from the fact that the barrel, upper receiver and back sight all match that the notch is present.

Cheesemaker · 08-17-2013, 01:19 AM

The rear sight does have a fixed V notch, it is not adjustable side to side.

The barrel, front sight, and receiver has serial number 7065 i (65),
under the rear sight has 23 H around the set screw,
up under the rear sight in the well has J 2365,
and the frame has 3677 h (77),
and the toggle has 44.

That is all the numbers I can see, without tearing it down.

Thank you all for helping me. I've gotten so much more info, and some info is backing up what my gunsmith told me.

Please keep giving me info on it. I really need to know what I have, and its overall value.

alanint · 08-17-2013, 07:38 AM

The notch we are referring to is a notch cut directly into The front edge of The upper receiver where it meets The barrel. This is directly under the rear sight And is designed to allow The rear sight to "nest" lower into The upper frame. By lifting The rear sight leaf you should be able to see This notch.

DavidJayUden · 08-17-2013, 09:10 AM

Regarding value, while your gun has a certain charm to it, it is in the end a parts gun with minimal collector interest. It is, on the other hand, an Artillery Luger. It is really worth whatever you can get out of it as prices seem to vary wildly, and the LP08 does bring more money than a P08.
I'm just guessing here but I'd think a guy shold be able to get $1200 out if it. Its function and accuracy are important to the value of a shooter, of course.
Do you agree?
dju

Cheesemaker · 08-18-2013, 12:42 AM

Yes it does have a notch under the rear sight.

As for the $1200 value, I feel good with that price. For several reasons, I like to keep records for insurance reasons, and I have several interested parties. If I decide to sell, I know what to ask for.

So, another question, what is the rate of increase in value, say over a 5 year span? Just trying to decide if its worth keeping.

So, thank you once again for helping me.

alanint · 08-18-2013, 06:39 AM

At the end of the day, that all depends on collecting trends and the economy in general. While your gun will hypothetically never go down in value, a poor economy may make a discretionary, ( and some would argue, luxury) purchase like an Artillery Luger harder to make. A quick sale might require a lower asking price.

08-14-2013, 10:45 AM	#1
Cheesemaker User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Oregon Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1917 Artillery help? Hi, I'm new to the Luger world. But last week I was thrust into the world of the Luger. I knew they were out there, seen them in pictures, movies, and behind glass. But I never thought I would have one in my presence. EVER!! I was given some firearms by my step dad, and he thought the Luger was worth a couple hundred dollars. He didn't do his research. So, I'm researching on what I have. It's a 1917 stamped Luger with the DWM stamping, in really good condition. But the numbers don't match. I've been trying to get it valued, but all the magazines, Blue Books, and such, give it a high value, but!! How much does it knock down in value vs. a all matching numbered firearm in similar condition? Thank you for your help. Cheesemaker!!

08-14-2013, 07:16 PM	#3
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Depending on so many variable I agree with Lon..around $1200 as a shooter. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-15-2013, 11:14 AM	#7
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,614 Thanks: 3,140 Thanked 2,519 Times in 939 Posts	By careful inspection. If you question your ability to inspect take it to a reliable gunsmith. Use proper ammo and wear eye protection. Fire only one round and carefully inspect the fired case. Look for any deformity and especially inspect the primer. Firing any firearm especially old ones is a crap shoot. Do your homework. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

08-16-2013, 05:08 AM	#10
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	You don't show the serial number on the front of the frame, but if it has a "77" in it, then your entire lower frame and sideplate come from a DWM Police rework pistol, to which someone added an artillery barrel and top receiver, which has a further mismatched toggle. Your pistol is made up of parts from at least three guns. Last edited by alanint; 08-16-2013 at 08:21 AM.

08-16-2013, 02:46 PM	#12
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	But a little research says that a gunsmith could hone the sear engagement, and take care of that. Finding a LUGER gunsmith is most important. The firing sequence is like no other. Fire the weapon after you are satisfied with it's ability to send a round downrange but BEFORE you let some gun monkey HONE the sear! Let the wrong guy mess with this pile of parts and you might be worse off than before. It also has a Police sideplate notched at the top. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-14-2013, 12:08 PM	#2
Arizona Slim Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 706 Thanks: 1,026 Thanked 409 Times in 225 Posts	Welcome to the forum Ryan, the very first thing the members will tell you is to post lots of good clear photos at all angels. Your 1917 artillery in good condition but with mixed numbers would probably be valued in the $1000.00 to $1400.00 range rather than in the area of $200.00 and probably more. Please post your photos as soon as possible and more knowledgeable members then I can give you a better idea as to the value of your pistol. Again, welcome to the forum. Lon

08-15-2013, 01:28 AM	#4
Cheesemaker User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Oregon Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you, I will get some pictures up as soon as I can. I appreciate your help. I've been on a local firearms forum, and I didn't want to post up what I have, because they are vultures. What I've seen on this forum, everybody seems real helpful.

08-15-2013, 10:58 AM	#5
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	How can you be sure a shooter is safe to fire?

08-15-2013, 11:20 AM	#8
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Examine the gun closely for cracks in the metal, especially on the upper half, a sign of pending disaster. And be certain that the bore is clear. dju

08-16-2013, 01:00 AM	#9
Cheesemaker User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Oregon Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here's some photos, they aren't that great, but all I have right now. I plan on getting a gunsmith to look over the barrel for me for sure. Step dad said the last time he shot it, it double fired on him. (Which is common from my readings) That was little over 25 years ago. So, its been in the closet for all that time, in a case. But a little research says that a gunsmith could hone the sear engagement, and take care of that. But all I want is 3 rounds. One single first shot, and then 2 after that, to make sure it cycles properly. And that is it for me. If I still have a hand after the first shot!! I have a co-worker that is very interested in it, and has owned 3 Lugers, before his divorce. And still has some ammo for it. And he is willing to take it down and make sure all the internals are in good shape, and we will do a cleaning on it. Thank you for your help.

08-16-2013, 09:40 AM	#11
kzullick Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: East Berwick, Pennsylvania Posts: 227 Thanks: 609 Thanked 100 Times in 81 Posts	Does this pistol have the "notch" in the receiver for the rear sight? I'm not seeing it in the pictures.

08-17-2013, 01:19 AM	#14
Cheesemaker User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Oregon Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The rear sight does have a fixed V notch, it is not adjustable side to side. The barrel, front sight, and receiver has serial number 7065 i (65), under the rear sight has 23 H around the set screw, up under the rear sight in the well has J 2365, and the frame has 3677 h (77), and the toggle has 44. That is all the numbers I can see, without tearing it down. Thank you all for helping me. I've gotten so much more info, and some info is backing up what my gunsmith told me. Please keep giving me info on it. I really need to know what I have, and its overall value.

08-17-2013, 07:38 AM	#15
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	The notch we are referring to is a notch cut directly into The front edge of The upper receiver where it meets The barrel. This is directly under the rear sight And is designed to allow The rear sight to "nest" lower into The upper frame. By lifting The rear sight leaf you should be able to see This notch.

08-17-2013, 09:10 AM	#16
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Regarding value, while your gun has a certain charm to it, it is in the end a parts gun with minimal collector interest. It is, on the other hand, an Artillery Luger. It is really worth whatever you can get out of it as prices seem to vary wildly, and the LP08 does bring more money than a P08. I'm just guessing here but I'd think a guy shold be able to get $1200 out if it. Its function and accuracy are important to the value of a shooter, of course. Do you agree? dju

08-18-2013, 12:42 AM	#17
Cheesemaker User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Oregon Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yes it does have a notch under the rear sight. As for the $1200 value, I feel good with that price. For several reasons, I like to keep records for insurance reasons, and I have several interested parties. If I decide to sell, I know what to ask for. So, another question, what is the rate of increase in value, say over a 5 year span? Just trying to decide if its worth keeping. So, thank you once again for helping me.

08-18-2013, 06:39 AM	#18
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	At the end of the day, that all depends on collecting trends and the economy in general. While your gun will hypothetically never go down in value, a poor economy may make a discretionary, ( and some would argue, luxury) purchase like an Artillery Luger harder to make. A quick sale might require a lower asking price.