Need info from experts <IMG SRC="/luger/graphics/biggrin.gif" BORDER=0 ALT=":D"> <img BORDER="0" src

Hugh · 03-20-2002, 08:38 PM

Does anyone know the significance of this mark? It is on a gun for sale on Gunbroker. It is a "K" date S/42 with supposedly all matching numbers in 7.65 Kal????????

">

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/kl.jpg

Ron Wood · 03-20-2002, 09:07 PM

Just guessing, but it might be the initials of the guy who refinished it.

Thor · 03-20-2002, 09:25 PM

Hugh, take a look at the toggle link with the S/42 coding? The S / 42 looks a little more separated than all the pictures I have seen on Mauser Lugers? ~Thor~

http://gunbroker.com/pixhost/2002-02...2_Mvc-712f.jpg

Johnny Peppers · 03-20-2002, 09:37 PM

Not only did he reblue it, but he re-tatooed it also. The K has no serifs, and the S/42 is wrong.

Dan Clemons · 03-20-2002, 11:10 PM

The gun is a fake. Even the lettering (font) does not look original to the gun.

Thor · 03-20-2002, 11:16 PM

Obviously a "funny" Luger!

MikeP · 03-20-2002, 11:29 PM

Hah! I posted a "check this" on 3/5 alerting to this fine specmen-Doug was the only one that bit.

MikeP

03-20-2002, 11:36 PM

NO RETURNS! SERIOUS BUYERS ONLY!!! So if you have a sense of humor this is not for you and don't keep sending me all those sarcastic emails.

Why not simply write, "Project gun made from a commercial luger. Want a lot of money! Looking for a stupid rich person! Are you that person?"

Doug · 03-20-2002, 11:52 PM

Hugh, I saw this earlier. In fact it was commented on in a post from a week or so ago. The things that look odd to me are.

1) Breach block has a commercial C/N proof.

2) Mag has remnants of a "Made in Germany" mag is also stamped in the police method.

3) In the S/42 the "S" is wrong.

4) A "K" date in 7.65?

Ok now SimpsonÃ¢??s is advertising a Dutch "KL" proofed gun, but I think that an amateur faker tried to make it a Dutch and didn't know what the proof was supposed to look like.

And the scariest part is this. I'd take a BIG pass.

"This gun was purchased as is and I have no history on it. Finish in 98%+ condition. ALL NUMBERS MATCH!!! No rust, no cracks or chips in grips. PLEASE DO NOT BID UNLESS YOU ARE A SERIOUS BUYER!! NO RETURNS!! Happy Bidding!!!!"

bill m · 03-21-2002, 12:29 AM

K Date Lugers actually have two different types of S/42 markings. The early models have one type, and the later variations have another. The S's, 4's and 2's are all different on the two variations. The S/42 pictured here is not the correct style for either the early or late variations.

Hugh · 03-21-2002, 08:05 AM

Can't fool you guys, can he? I am especially PO'd that he ruined a perfectly good "7.65" magazine!! This is a relisting, the first time this gun was on, it sold for $1,525.oo! Apparantly the high bidder backed out and now it has been relisted. The auction doesn't show any "retracted bids" however. Shill bidding???????

03-21-2002, 11:05 AM

Hugh, Interesting to see your one of a kind Dutch Airforce luger. Perhaps the creator will make some more and it will become a variation. Tom h.

tracyp · 03-21-2002, 01:11 PM

He had this for sale before with no reserve and it went for $1525. I guess someone found out it was a fake.

Kyrie · 03-21-2002, 02:13 PM

Hi Folks,

IÃ¢??m going to have to respectfully disagree with the majority on this one.

In my opinion, this pistol is genuine and unaltered. To be a fake it would have to resemble some known variation, which it does not. I strongly suspect it is from one of the small foreign police contracts filled my Mauser during the mid to late 1930Ã¢??s. The chambering, commercial proof, and Ã¢??Made in GermanyÃ¢?Â magazine marking are all consistent with a pistol from one such contract.

The problem with pieces like this is they are near impossible to authenticate. The absence of Mauser factory records and the relatively small number of pistols in these contracts (usually only a few hundred pistols) both make authentication very difficult.

I think the fellow who bid it up to $1525 and backed out will eventually have the opportunity to bitterly regret his decision.

Warm regards,

Kyrie

03-21-2002, 08:13 PM

Despite the well though-out opinion, Kyrie, what make you of the "K" engraved on the chamber? I can't figure out why it is present. For that matter, why the unique (not known on other pistols) S/42 stamp on toggle? What do you think?

bill m · 03-22-2002, 01:07 AM

Kyrie · 03-22-2002, 02:55 PM

The Ã¢??KÃ¢?Â might indicate a year of manufacture, or mean something else entirely. If so it wouldnÃ¢??t be the First Luger like that. But then, who knows?

Best regards,

Kyrie

Moderator - Cruffler_Forum on Yahoo Groups

"The flame free C&R Forum."

Kyrie · 03-22-2002, 02:57 PM

03-20-2002, 08:38 PM	#1
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Need info from experts Does anyone know the significance of this mark? It is on a gun for sale on Gunbroker. It is a "K" date S/42 with supposedly all matching numbers in 7.65 Kal???????? "> http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/kl.jpg

03-20-2002, 09:07 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,098 Times in 1,676 Posts	Re: Need info from experts Just guessing, but it might be the initials of the guy who refinished it.

03-20-2002, 09:25 PM	#3
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Need info from experts Hugh, take a look at the toggle link with the S/42 coding? The S / 42 looks a little more separated than all the pictures I have seen on Mauser Lugers? ~Thor~ http://gunbroker.com/pixhost/2002-02...2_Mvc-712f.jpg

03-20-2002, 09:37 PM	#4
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Need info from experts Not only did he reblue it, but he re-tatooed it also. The K has no serifs, and the S/42 is wrong.

03-20-2002, 11:10 PM	#5
Dan Clemons User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Grants Pass, OR Posts: 184 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Need info from experts The gun is a fake. Even the lettering (font) does not look original to the gun.

03-20-2002, 11:16 PM	#6
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Need info from experts Obviously a "funny" Luger!

03-20-2002, 11:29 PM	#7
MikeP User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ILL Posts: 686 Thanks: 36 Thanked 452 Times in 198 Posts	Re: Need info from experts Hah! I posted a "check this" on 3/5 alerting to this fine specmen-Doug was the only one that bit. MikeP

03-20-2002, 11:36 PM	#8
mlm Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Need info from experts NO RETURNS! SERIOUS BUYERS ONLY!!! So if you have a sense of humor this is not for you and don't keep sending me all those sarcastic emails. Why not simply write, "Project gun made from a commercial luger. Want a lot of money! Looking for a stupid rich person! Are you that person?"

03-20-2002, 11:52 PM	#9
Doug User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: USA Posts: 168 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Need info from experts Hugh, I saw this earlier. In fact it was commented on in a post from a week or so ago. The things that look odd to me are. 1) Breach block has a commercial C/N proof. 2) Mag has remnants of a "Made in Germany" mag is also stamped in the police method. 3) In the S/42 the "S" is wrong. 4) A "K" date in 7.65? Ok now SimpsonÃ¢??s is advertising a Dutch "KL" proofed gun, but I think that an amateur faker tried to make it a Dutch and didn't know what the proof was supposed to look like. And the scariest part is this. I'd take a BIG pass. "This gun was purchased as is and I have no history on it. Finish in 98%+ condition. ALL NUMBERS MATCH!!! No rust, no cracks or chips in grips. PLEASE DO NOT BID UNLESS YOU ARE A SERIOUS BUYER!! NO RETURNS!! Happy Bidding!!!!"

03-21-2002, 12:29 AM	#10
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	S/42 markings K Date Lugers actually have two different types of S/42 markings. The early models have one type, and the later variations have another. The S's, 4's and 2's are all different on the two variations. The S/42 pictured here is not the correct style for either the early or late variations.

03-21-2002, 08:05 AM	#11
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Re: Need info from experts Can't fool you guys, can he? I am especially PO'd that he ruined a perfectly good "7.65" magazine!! This is a relisting, the first time this gun was on, it sold for $1,525.oo! Apparantly the high bidder backed out and now it has been relisted. The auction doesn't show any "retracted bids" however. Shill bidding???????

03-21-2002, 11:05 AM	#12
tom h Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Need info from experts Hugh, Interesting to see your one of a kind Dutch Airforce luger. Perhaps the creator will make some more and it will become a variation. Tom h.

03-21-2002, 01:11 PM	#13
tracyp User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Peoples Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 391 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Need info from experts He had this for sale before with no reserve and it went for $1525. I guess someone found out it was a fake.

03-21-2002, 02:13 PM	#14
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Re: Need info from experts Hi Folks, IÃ¢??m going to have to respectfully disagree with the majority on this one. In my opinion, this pistol is genuine and unaltered. To be a fake it would have to resemble some known variation, which it does not. I strongly suspect it is from one of the small foreign police contracts filled my Mauser during the mid to late 1930Ã¢??s. The chambering, commercial proof, and Ã¢??Made in GermanyÃ¢?Â magazine marking are all consistent with a pistol from one such contract. The problem with pieces like this is they are near impossible to authenticate. The absence of Mauser factory records and the relatively small number of pistols in these contracts (usually only a few hundred pistols) both make authentication very difficult. I think the fellow who bid it up to $1525 and backed out will eventually have the opportunity to bitterly regret his decision. Warm regards, Kyrie

03-21-2002, 08:13 PM	#15
mlm Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Need info from experts Despite the well though-out opinion, Kyrie, what make you of the "K" engraved on the chamber? I can't figure out why it is present. For that matter, why the unique (not known on other pistols) S/42 stamp on toggle? What do you think?

03-22-2002, 01:07 AM	#16
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Don't let this sleeper get away from you Kyrie, buy it! (EOM)

03-22-2002, 02:55 PM	#17
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Re: Need info from experts The Ã¢??KÃ¢?Â might indicate a year of manufacture, or mean something else entirely. If so it wouldnÃ¢??t be the First Luger like that. But then, who knows? Best regards, Kyrie Moderator - Cruffler_Forum on Yahoo Groups "The flame free C&R Forum."

03-22-2002, 02:57 PM	#18
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Top bid is already above what I'd gamble (EO