police luger

[beachbaker]

I had an opportunity to visit with my son in laws family this weekend to celebrate the 1st birthday of my grand daughter. While there, his 80 year old grandfather and I were talking and I mentioned that I collected lugers. He said that he had one that he had received from his father and did not know anything about them. He went and got it out of his safe and asked me to have a look. What he had was a 1915/1920 DWM with sear safety added in about 98% pristene condition. He had two wood bottom magazines one commercial style with no numbers and the other police style numbered to the gun. The grip strap was unit police marked (S.P.O. 1. 40) the holster with it had the same unit mark under the flap but a different serial number on the back. The tool in the pouch was unmarked. I would like to let him know what the unit mark meant if somebody would like to respond? Thanks, Curt

[Don M]

Curt, the marking is somewhat puzzling. Is it possible for you to post a photo of the grip strap?

[drbuster]

Curt, that is not an easy police marking to identify. Are you certain the "P" is not a poorly stamped "B"? S.B.O. stands for an eastern district of Berlin (page 92 of Don Maus' History Writ in Steel). If you are positive that the marking is S.P.O., then on page 330 of the same treatise, it is listed as a possible Sicherheitpolizei or early Schutzpolizei marking. Some markings were mysterious and not identifyable even today. Perhaps someone else, even Don, may be able to contribute something here.

[policeluger]

Could it be S.OP. ?

[beachbaker]

I was very careful to look closely at the mark in the light and I am sure they are exactly as I posted. I am no longer near the gun as I have returned home but I asked my son in law to take some pictures. I will not see him for a week so depending on quality I will post when I receive. I do have unit marked lugers so I do know how important it is to make sure the information is correct. I made sure the periods were exactly as I posted even the gap between the S.P.O. and the 1. 40. Curt

[drbuster]

Don, any thoughts?

[Don M]

Curt, if it is not possible to get a photo of the marking, please let me know the relative heights of the various characters. If it is a Prussian marking, I would expect the 1 to be about 3/4 the height of the letters S, P and O and the 40 to be half the letters' height.

The markings on the holster may also be indicative. When you say it is "under the flap," do you mean it is stamped on the front of the body of the holster where it is covered by the flap or is it stamped on the inside of the flap? I assume that the serial number stamped on the back is on the right rear and that it does not match the serial number of the gun?

For my database, I would appreciate knowing the serial number (and suffix, if any) of the pistol and the serial number on the back of the holster.

[beachbaker]

Don, I will get the serial number of the gun and pass it on when I get it. I will get the sizing of the letters and numbers as well. The unit mark on the holster is on the inside of the flap not on the body of the holster. The serial number stamped on the back is on the upper right rear and it is not the serial number of the gun but of another gun. Curt

[Don M]

Curt, from the photos you sent me, I think this is an early (1919-20) Sicherheitspolizei marking, possibly from the Prussian district or city of Osnabrück. There is growing evidence that at least some Sipo units used the abbreviation S.P. during this time. What is puzzling to me is the fact that the number on the right rear of the holster does not match the serial number of the gun. The same police property markings on the gun and holster clearly indicate they remained together from the early Weimar era until now. Are you sure the serial numbers are different? From the photo you sent, I could only make out that the number on the holster starts with a 9 as does the serial number of the gun (9865e).

You mentioned that the gun originally belonged to your great-great-grandfather who was a policeman in Germany. Do you know what city he lived in?

[beachbaker]

Don, yes I am quite sure of the number on the back of the holster being 9374 and not 9865. Believe me I really looked it over well in hopes I could make the match but it is what it is. I am not sure the family has any knowledge of where the great grandfather lived but will continue to look in to it and let you know. Did you want to put the pictures on the forum? Thanks, Curt Yaeger

[Don M]

Curt, I can't explain the mismatch between the serial numbers on the gun and the holster. Typically, stamping of the serial number on the holster was done after the 1936 order terminating the use of property markings on police weapons and equipment. From that point onward, serial numbers were used for identification. However, the old Sipo property stamps guarantee that the proper number for the holster should have been 9865. Yet another mystery!

I will be very interested if you learn anything more about the provenance of this rig. It may help support or refute my speculation about the meaning of this and similar markings.

The photos are too large to post and I have not had the time to resize them. If you get the chance, they may be of interest to others on the forum.