30 Luger Cartridge Conversion

[sheepherder]

30 Luger Cartridge Conversion

This has come up a couple times, so I thought I'd write up what we old fudds did back in the '70's, when there was no 7.65mm Luger, 7.63mm Mauser, or 7.62 x 39 Russian [SKS/AK-47] ammunition available...

We'd make it, using Donnelly's Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions as a guide. For the pistol cartridges, we'd start off with a suitable pistol and a box of new unprimed .223 Remington cases.



We would cut the cases down, on a lathe with a mandrel, or in this case, with a mini-pipe cutter, to ~.010" overlong.





We would face off the cutdown case to length [1.175" here] in a case trimmer.



The sharp edges would be broken with a deburring tool.



Full length sizing in an RCBS resizing die to form. Lube case well.



Case is now trimmed to desired length, either with or without a pilot, whichever works best.





Case is also neck reamed w/.308" reamer.



Full length sized once again with neck expander attachment in sizing die.



On to the bullet. I used a FMJ 30 Carbine bullet back then, 110gr weight.



I made up a jig to hold the 30 cal bullets, and drilled them out to whatever weight required (93grs here, using a 5mm drill). Jig is simply two strips of aluminum clamped together and drilled for the bullets. In use, you insert the bullets and clamp the jig in a drill press vise.





Weight is now 93 grs. RCBS has chamged their scales a bit over the years; took me a while to figure this one out...



Cases are now primered. Small pistol primers used.



For this presentation, I only had Hercules Blue Dot powder available, so I decided to use 5.0grs of Blue Dot for my starting load.



The drilled-out bullet is seated to an OAL ~1.170", with a crimp on the case mouth. This takes a bit of experimentation to get it just right.



Loaded cartridges ready to shoot.



They will fire-form to final shape in the chamber, and can be expected to have the same lifespan as any other reloaded cartridge.

I've found that military cases have thicker bases and thicker walls than commercial cases, and require more reaming/sizing.

They also will hold less powder without compressing than the commercial cases. The extended carbine bullet also cuts down on case capacity, so a powder that takes up less space is desirable.

Note: For historical use only; I take no responsibility for any data posted. Always start with minimum loads, and wear eye and ear protection.

[sheepherder]

Donnelly also suggests using cut down 38 Special cases, with rim turned down, and extractor groove cut. The .223 Remington cases were simpler (no lathe work required).

[lugerholsterrepair]

Rich, Very nicely done article. I enjoyed reading it. I love projects like this but don't have the time for too many.
The blue dot load you used...05 grains..did you ever fire one? That might be pretty weak from what I remember about Blue Dot!

Thanks..

Jerry

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Rick W.

Did the 308" reamer suffice with your RCBS sizer die?

Yes; in fact, if you look at the last pic, the crimp is a bit too pronounced...but I did these three just for S&G...I'll adjust my crimp later, when I start running batches through...

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

The blue dot load you used...05 grains..did you ever fire one? That might be pretty weak from what I remember about Blue Dot!

...5.0 grs... I think it was Hugh's data I was looking at and 7.5grs was suggested...I wanted to go low for starters, but 6.0grs looked like it might be a compressed load, so I backed off a grain...Both gun shops were closed yesterday [New Years] and today, I couldn't get any other powder and Blue Dot is all I had left here...

I'll fire these three off today or tomorrow...I was going to try a water shot too, and recover the bullet to see what it looked like...

[lugerholsterrepair]

Rich, I have always used Red Dot for most of my loading. 5 Gr. is about what I use for 9MM .45 and .38 Special as I remember but it might be 4.5. Mostly for economy because almost any other powder uses more grains per load. Also because I didn't have to change my powder thrower..just used the same for all three.

Ted Green (Thor) recommended Blue Dot to me for 9MM Artillery loading years ago..swore by it.

Again, A really fine article!

Jerry

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

Rich, I have always used Red Dot for most of my loading.

Jerry, Red Dot was what I was looking for.

Lyman's 45th Ed lists Red Dot at 3.9 grs for 93 gr FMJ to start. They also list 3.5 grs Bullseye, but I have never liked Bullseye...too dirty for me...

[lugerholsterrepair]

Rich, Right you are..Red Dot is clean burning and bulllseye leaves unburnt powder in the chamber for me. There are many more modern powders I suppose but Red Dot has always worked so why change?

Jerry

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Rick W.

I priced the RCBS forming dies to do such, but was too many $ at the time, kinda made my eyes water, but have to admit, a lot of work involved in makng those die sets and they are hardened as well.

Rick, I could never see the need for "forming" die sets. Even when I form 38-45 Clerke, I use the reloading/resizing dies to "form" my cases. Yes, I do crunch maybe 1 in 20, but that's acceptable.

Prices on RCBS forming AND reloading die sets from Huntington for obscure calibers like 30 Luger, 30 Mauser, 8mm Nambu are ridiculous...You can literally pay more for the die set than the pistol...

[sheepherder]

I'm aware that reloading is not for everyone, and that in this world of disposable commodities we now seem to live in that re-using fired cartridges might seem a waste of valuable time.

But reloading is a way to get the most accuracy from any firearm. Once you decide on a firearm, and a bullet, you can start experimenting with powders. Assuming you are proficient enough to shoot repeatable strings of shots, say groups of five, you can vary the powder charge up or down to see just where the "sweet spot" is for that firearm/bullet combination. You may go from 4.5 grs up to 7.5 grs (for example) shooting 1 1/2" groups at 25 yards...and then, at 6.0 grs, you shoot a 3/4" group...Repeatably...That is the perfect powder charge for that firearm/bullet!

There is also the matter of availablity. Some old calibers aren't available any more. 8mm Nambu, for example. Luckily, because of the efforts of wildcatters, there is information available to make these old calibers from readily available brass. (8mm Nambu can be made from 30 Remington brass cut down).

There is also the factor of cost. Reloading can cut down the cost of shooting, since primers, powder, and bullets can be bought in bulk. Brass also, and it is not unusual for me to get 10 reloads out of one shell (or more).

RCBS makes an excellent "Rock Chucker Master Reloading Kit" containing pretty much all the hardware you'll need to reload, and eBay is a ready source for used die sets. I do batch reloading, meaning I take 50 or 100 fired cartridges and perform the reloading steps on that batch all-at-once, one step at a time. I can de-prime & resize while watching TV and waiting for dinner to cook, for example. Then stick those shells away until I feel like priming them; again, all 50 or 100 at once. I tried a 6-position turret press, and did not like it. Too much going on at once; too easy to make a mistake. YMMV.

[John Sabato]

GREAT Article on making .30 brass... I will sticky this thread!

[Ice]

Great info on a little known subject. Thanks!

Charlie

[Freischütz]

This certainly brings back memories. I got into it to make 7.63 Mauser cases. At the time I preferred 222 Rem and 221 Fireball brass because they were thinner than the military cases.

Since my C96 liked to throw cases forward, I spent more time hunting for them than I did shooting. After that much effort I did not intend to lose any.

Then Midway had a sale on bulk brass with their headstamp. I bought two thousand 7.63s and one thousand 9mm Steyr. No more hunting under rocks and weeds for me.

[cbdb]

A genuinely fun article, well described with great pix.
Thanks.

[singleshotman]

i do not own one but a old handloaders digest says 8mm nambu can be made from 41 long colt.I know that Starline makes this brass.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by singleshotman

i do not own one but a old handloaders digest says 8mm nambu can be made from 41 long colt.I know that Starline makes this brass.

Cool!!! James - If you could scan that article, there are some Nambu T14 owners here who would be interested...

Hello???

41 Colt Long cartridge is rimmed - I turn the rim off of rimmed [revolver] cases in my lathe, before cutting the extractor groove for a semi-auto...

How does this article describe doing it???

Edit: We lost James...Fell off the face of the Earth, apparently...OR...Abducted by aliens???

[sheepherder]

Reloading is better covered in any one of the many books put out by the bullet manufacturers, so I won't go into the specifics here. But I re-arranged my basement work space and relocated my RCBS reloading press to my Harbor Freight 3in1 workcenter. This allows me to watch TV while reloading.



This is most of the reloading tools I use. I grouped them all together for a photo shoot; I don't use them all at the same reloading session. I 'batch' reload, meaning I'll run 50 or 100 cases through a specific procedure (full length resize; deprime; prime; charge; seat bullet) in one session, then shut down and do something else. I'll space the sessions out over three or four nights, to keep fatigue from becoming a factor in my reloads.

I also occasionally try a new powder, or a new (to me) caliber, and to tailor the reload to that particular powder/bullet, I'll size & prime a number of cases and carry a small amount of powder and bullets to the range for a 'test' session. I'll charge the cartridges with a 'starting load' of powder, and seat the bullets on-site with a Huntington Die Specialties 'backpack' reloading press.



This allows me to do a quick powder charge right on the range, and vary the powder load to get a 'good' grouping & satisfactory functioning of the firearm. I can then go back home and do my 'batch' reloading for that firearm, and be reasonably sure that the resultant reloads will give me the same consistent results that I obtained in the 'test' firing session.

[Patronen]

I noticed your case trimmer is a forester the same as mine. I converted mine to take more brass off faster for case forming.
I don't have any TV but play old cassette tapes once in a while.
Nice setup you have.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Patronen

I noticed your case trimmer is a forester the same as mine. I converted mine to take more brass off faster for case forming.
I don't have any TV but play old cassette tapes once in a while.
Nice setup you have.

It's not as nice as my old house. But it's what I got.

The Forster case trimmer is very nice. I've had this one since the '70's...When I bought the new RCBS Rockchucker reloading 'kit' from a GB seller several years ago, it came with the RCBS case trimmer. I've never used the RCBS because I got used to this one, and have several pilots and reamers for it. I think I have another collet too.

Does your drill attachment have a 'flex' joint, or a universal of some kind??? (I used to have a drill like that...Inherited from my father)...

[Patronen]

I bought 2 of these old drills at a garage sale about 15yrs ago for $1.00, I can't remember what I did with the other one but it was identical. What that is, is a bolt with the head hacked off into the drill and the threads mated up to where the handle was on the trimmer. 3 nuts holding it all together. I rig up things because I'm a cheapskate. I built a case tumbler out of another old drill and a coffee can. I even built a homemade drill press before I bought a real factory one cheap at a yard sale. Hey? I just remember where that other drill went! The homemade press built out of a hand drill a bed frame and an old car jack.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Patronen

.
Nice setup you have.

You're looking at my lathe with a plywood shelf on the bed and the press bolted to the table. It all comes off in less than 2 minutes, including putting it away. It's not the best I could do, but it's 'good enough'.

I was out today trying to get some IMR 4895...Only place left that sells powder locally was full of yahoos wasting the proprietor's time...I waited ten minutes and left. The line hadn't moved.

I'll try my regular LGS tomorrow. (He's closed Mondays). If he doesn't have any, I'll try ordering from Midway. They have a couple things I been meaning to get anyway...