Here's some good non-PC Luger talk for ya...

spacecoast · 09-27-2020, 04:35 PM

The March '67 issue of Guns & Ammo had a big Luger spread written by Mason Williams. In it he mentions the Luger's fine machining, dust and load sensitivity, and inconsistent trigger pull.

Here's a paragraph to ponder in the current social climate, the guy would be run out of town today -

Quote:

"The Luger can be compared to a beautiful woman with a gorgeous figure, divine personality, who is completely undependable, a superb hostess who can't boil water or run a vacuum cleaner but who is so irresistible to men that she wrecks empires. And all the women hate her."

gunnertwo · 09-27-2020, 05:15 PM

Yep. Doesn't age well. The comment, not the gun.

:-)

G2

Sieger · 09-27-2020, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacecoast

The March '67 issue of Guns & Ammo had a big Luger spread written by Mason Williams. In it he mentions the Luger's fine machining, dust and load sensitivity, and inconsistent trigger pull.

Here's a paragraph to ponder in the current social climate, the guy would be run out of town today -

Hi!!

Today they would call that "Fake News"!!

Respectfully,

Sieger

mrerick · 09-27-2020, 08:48 PM

Has there ever been anything "politically correct" about our Lugers?

Consider the origin (between Borschardt and Luger working for DWM); the constant negative depiction in media ("evil guns")... The numerous variations and risks of counterfeited markings...

Even many that would consider collecting them consider it risky because so much knowledge is needed...

In fact, I wish we could break through that barrier better for the average collector. This forum is one of the most constructive things I've seen toward doing that.

HerrKaiser · 09-27-2020, 08:59 PM

The "evil gun" taboo is one reason that I want to focus my collecting on commercial guns and Imperial guns. I also have a greater affinity and interest for WW1 and before in general, but the "eevul Nahtzee gun" trope is also one that I would rather avoid.

Doubs · 09-28-2020, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HerrKaiser

The "evil gun" taboo is one reason that I want to focus my collecting on commercial guns and Imperial guns. I also have a greater affinity and interest for WW1 and before in general, but the "eevul Nahtzee gun" trope is also one that I would rather avoid.

The average person wouldn't know a 1900 Luger from the last Mauser Parabellum. If they connect Nazis with Lugers it won't matter when it was made; it will be a Nazi gun in their minds.

Sergio Natali · 09-28-2020, 08:17 AM

Apart from the fact that other guns could much better be identified as the real "Nazi pistol" like for instance the P38.

mrerick · 09-28-2020, 09:01 AM

The media abuse of Lugers comes down to the basic argument of the tool versus what people do with the tool.

The Germans have always made really good precision tools. Yet, people don't associate Zeiss optics with evil, or Siemens electrical or communication products with evil.

Most people are completely unaware that the Swiss made what may be even higher precision Lugers; nor do they associate Lugers with the Swiss.

Yet, possibly more than any other firearm, the Luger is labeled by media as "evil" itself. The truth is that it's all emotional. Really clever producers, writers and actors have constantly pushed their audience's emotional buttons for 100 years.

The truth of the Luger is always intriguing. The truth of it's history is even more so.

spacecoast · 09-28-2020, 09:19 AM

The fact that the name includes "Luger" doesn't seem to stop the distribution and use of the most popular handgun round in the world.

I agree with your comment on the riskiness of collecting them, and along with the knowledge required and the cost, the plethora of dealers willing to enhance and outright lie about guns is a huge discouragement to those who would like to collect what I consider the pinnacle of early 20th century firearms manufacturing.

That's why forums like this with knowledgeable, forthright and friendly collectors are so needed to give people reason to believe that they still have a chance to acquire original, collectible guns that weren't fabricated from a parts bin in some shyster's back room.

Heinz · 09-28-2020, 10:51 AM

I am always fascinated by the attention WW2 Mauser Lugers command. As Ron Wood notes, they are reproductions :-) The same thing applies to the Walther PP versus the Sauer 38H and the Mauser HSC. The PP is certainly not a standout in function or quality over the other 2. But Nazi/SS affiliations, real or imagined, run the Walther price up. And my last controversial observation: the Death's Head 1918 Luger. A contingent wants this to be the original SS pistol. I feel that is a needless smear on the Death Head legacy. I would rather own a fake than an SS pistol, which saves me a lot of money.

MikeP · 09-28-2020, 11:54 AM

The iconic "Evil gun" Luger image began with the concept of the "Evil Hun" of WW2.
Empirical Germany gets no pass in the bad guy department.
Certainly no death camps, but they cast a dark cloud that created a lot of suffering the world could have done without.
Some old movies of the period show gangsters and other miscreants wielding Lugers.
My grandfathers were both WW1 vets who's lives were disrupted by having to serve as were most of the guys of that age where I grew up.
My father and his cohort were WW2 vets. There were a number of local Luger souvenirs I saw and handled as a kid. Still a couple around.
Bought my 1st in 1962 or thereabouts.
My grandfather took a dim view of my interest is such things.

mrerick · 09-28-2020, 01:24 PM

My grandfather was a Swedish machinist that immigrated to the USA when he was 8 years old.

During both wars, he worked as a machinist making commercial sewing machines for Union Special in Chicago. He worked there through both wars and the entire depression, and must have been quite skilled.

His son, my Father, served in the Navy very early in WW-II - and had no interest in firearms whatsoever.

So... here I am collecting Lugers.

09-27-2020, 08:48 PM	#4
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Has there ever been anything "politically correct" about our Lugers? Consider the origin (between Borschardt and Luger working for DWM); the constant negative depiction in media ("evil guns")... The numerous variations and risks of counterfeited markings... Even many that would consider collecting them consider it risky because so much knowledge is needed... In fact, I wish we could break through that barrier better for the average collector. This forum is one of the most constructive things I've seen toward doing that. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-27-2020, 08:59 PM	#5
HerrKaiser User Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: South Carolina Posts: 803 Thanks: 751 Thanked 795 Times in 377 Posts	The "evil gun" taboo is one reason that I want to focus my collecting on commercial guns and Imperial guns. I also have a greater affinity and interest for WW1 and before in general, but the "eevul Nahtzee gun" trope is also one that I would rather avoid. __________________ -QM Looking for Mauser S/42 toggle train #22

09-28-2020, 08:17 AM	#7
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Apart from the fact that other guns could much better be identified as the real "Nazi pistol" like for instance the P38. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

09-28-2020, 09:01 AM	#8
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	The media abuse of Lugers comes down to the basic argument of the tool versus what people do with the tool. The Germans have always made really good precision tools. Yet, people don't associate Zeiss optics with evil, or Siemens electrical or communication products with evil. Most people are completely unaware that the Swiss made what may be even higher precision Lugers; nor do they associate Lugers with the Swiss. Yet, possibly more than any other firearm, the Luger is labeled by media as "evil" itself. The truth is that it's all emotional. Really clever producers, writers and actors have constantly pushed their audience's emotional buttons for 100 years. The truth of the Luger is always intriguing. The truth of it's history is even more so. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-28-2020, 09:19 AM	#9
spacecoast User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: FL and PA Posts: 332 Thanks: 276 Thanked 243 Times in 109 Posts	The fact that the name includes "Luger" doesn't seem to stop the distribution and use of the most popular handgun round in the world. I agree with your comment on the riskiness of collecting them, and along with the knowledge required and the cost, the plethora of dealers willing to enhance and outright lie about guns is a huge discouragement to those who would like to collect what I consider the pinnacle of early 20th century firearms manufacturing. That's why forums like this with knowledgeable, forthright and friendly collectors are so needed to give people reason to believe that they still have a chance to acquire original, collectible guns that weren't fabricated from a parts bin in some shyster's back room. __________________ My avatars are the Bulgarian word for "Fire", as seen on my 1900, 1906 and 1908 Bulgarian Contract DWM Lugers. Looking for a DWM Commercial side plate #95

09-27-2020, 05:15 PM	#2
gunnertwo User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Nampa, Idaho Posts: 606 Thanks: 805 Thanked 909 Times in 351 Posts	Yep. Doesn't age well. The comment, not the gun. :-) G2

09-28-2020, 10:51 AM	#10
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	I am always fascinated by the attention WW2 Mauser Lugers command. As Ron Wood notes, they are reproductions :-) The same thing applies to the Walther PP versus the Sauer 38H and the Mauser HSC. The PP is certainly not a standout in function or quality over the other 2. But Nazi/SS affiliations, real or imagined, run the Walther price up. And my last controversial observation: the Death's Head 1918 Luger. A contingent wants this to be the original SS pistol. I feel that is a needless smear on the Death Head legacy. I would rather own a fake than an SS pistol, which saves me a lot of money.

09-28-2020, 11:54 AM	#11
MikeP User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ILL Posts: 686 Thanks: 36 Thanked 452 Times in 198 Posts	The iconic "Evil gun" Luger image began with the concept of the "Evil Hun" of WW2. Empirical Germany gets no pass in the bad guy department. Certainly no death camps, but they cast a dark cloud that created a lot of suffering the world could have done without. Some old movies of the period show gangsters and other miscreants wielding Lugers. My grandfathers were both WW1 vets who's lives were disrupted by having to serve as were most of the guys of that age where I grew up. My father and his cohort were WW2 vets. There were a number of local Luger souvenirs I saw and handled as a kid. Still a couple around. Bought my 1st in 1962 or thereabouts. My grandfather took a dim view of my interest is such things.

09-28-2020, 01:24 PM	#12
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	My grandfather was a Swedish machinist that immigrated to the USA when he was 8 years old. During both wars, he worked as a machinist making commercial sewing machines for Union Special in Chicago. He worked there through both wars and the entire depression, and must have been quite skilled. His son, my Father, served in the Navy very early in WW-II - and had no interest in firearms whatsoever. So... here I am collecting Lugers. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.