Help with unit marks

Lugers down under · 06-14-2002, 06:11 AM

I have the chance of purchasing quite a nice 1917 DWM Artillery which is complete with board stock, holster,tool, mag pouch,cleaning rod.
The back grip strap is unit marked JR 448 9K and the holster is made by Max Reuser Stalluonen 1916 and is stamped BAX VII.
Can any one help with the unit marks for the gun which I interpret as Infantry Regiment No 448 , 9th company staff. I have never seen a unit mark on the back grip strap before, has anyone seen similar and the holster BAX VII, I have no idea.
This gun is a WW1 souvenir and has papers but nothing on the unit marks.
Help please,
Murray,

John Sabato · 06-14-2002, 09:28 AM

<img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" /> G'day!Murray,

One of our most recent and prestigious members seems to have a wealth of information about unit markings... Jan C. Still.

Perhaps he will chime in here and provide what you are asking...

Herb · 06-14-2002, 12:50 PM

I'll give it a shot, Infantry Regiment 448, Company 9. The holster is actually marked BA XVII and is the 1914 thru 1918 Battalion marking found on WWI hosters. This one is the 17th Battalion.

Lugers down under · 06-14-2002, 03:42 PM

<img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
Thanks Guys,
I had a feeling that it looked OK, and I did'nt think to put the holster mark in the correct format Herb. John, this is what makes this forum just so great to be able to discuss things with real informed and sensible people.
So! OK off I shall go to buy. I will send you a photo of my shopping basket tonight. It's 7.45am Saturday morning here and very cold (winter)
Regards,
Murray.

Jan C Still · 06-14-2002, 04:43 PM

Murray
J.R.448.9.K signifies Infantry Regiment 448, 9 Kompagnie which was part of the 233 and 107 ID during WWI.

The BA XVII signifies the 17 th Army Corps, which two of the regiments in the 233ID are from. What this indicates is that, in a round about way, the holster is related to the Luger.

The 233 ID battled in Flanders, Lorraine, Kemmel and the Somme during WWI.
Jan

Thor · 06-14-2002, 04:48 PM

I think these unit marking Lugers are fascinating!!! I am so glad we have an expert like Jan Still to help us learn about them! <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Jan C Still · 06-14-2002, 05:29 PM

John Sabato
I mistakenly placed my last two postings in this section when I intended to place them in the Unit Markings Section. Can they be moved.
Jan

Lugers down under · 06-15-2002, 12:43 AM

Many thanks Jan,
I managed to purchase the gun (in an auction) today and have just got back from the auction.
The auctioneer read out the history of the gun before bidding started as follows;
Captured on the Somme by Trooper John Morton
Enlisted number 9/308 Otago Mounted Rifles (New Zealand infantry division)Enlisted 16 August 1914
Served in Egypt 1914,1915,1916
Served in the Balkans 1915, Gallipoli,Mudros
Served in Western Europe 1916,1917,1918 at Flanders,Somme,Etaples,Abule
Discharged 6th June 1919.
What an amazing piece of New Zealand War history and I am so honoured to own it.
It is complete with board stock, holster, stripping tool, cleaning rod (all imperial proof) and snail drum magazine.
Jan, I really apreciate the time you have taken to provide me with the remainder of the history of this wounderful Luger.
Many thanks to you all
Murray,
P.S. I got two other WW1 DWM's as well!
Later this evening I will post a photo of my shopping basket which was very full.

Jan C Still · 06-15-2002, 11:29 AM

Murry
Most artillery Luger rigs were put together by collectors long after the end of the war.

I am looking forward to the photographs of your rig. It must have been together from the time it was issued to the German soldier in the 448 IR. Likely he lost it at the third battle of the Somme, during the British attack of August 1918, to New Zeland Trooper John Morton. What a piece of history! A real collectors prize.
Jan

M38 · 06-15-2002, 01:48 PM

Good job Murray!
What an absolutely facinating piece of history.

Jeff Noll · 06-24-2002, 10:50 PM

My book The Imperial German Regimental Marking will solve most of your Regimental Marking translation questions. Take a look at my web site http://home.earthlink.net/~nopubl . The book also contains about 500 lugers with their Regimental Markings and translations. w/r Jeff Noll

John Sabato · 06-25-2002, 11:31 AM

Jan C. Still,

I am sorry but I only have the ability to move the entire topic. The only option that I have with individual posts is to edit them or delete them. Please copy your posts individually to the correct forum and when you have done so, if you let me know I will delete the mistaken posts here.

thanks,

06-14-2002, 06:11 AM	#1
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Help with unit marks I have the chance of purchasing quite a nice 1917 DWM Artillery which is complete with board stock, holster,tool, mag pouch,cleaning rod. The back grip strap is unit marked JR 448 9K and the holster is made by Max Reuser Stalluonen 1916 and is stamped BAX VII. Can any one help with the unit marks for the gun which I interpret as Infantry Regiment No 448 , 9th company staff. I have never seen a unit mark on the back grip strap before, has anyone seen similar and the holster BAX VII, I have no idea. This gun is a WW1 souvenir and has papers but nothing on the unit marks. Help please, Murray, __________________ Lugers down under

06-14-2002, 09:28 AM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	<img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" /> G'day!Murray, One of our most recent and prestigious members seems to have a wealth of information about unit markings... Jan C. Still. Perhaps he will chime in here and provide what you are asking... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-14-2002, 12:50 PM	#3
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I'll give it a shot, Infantry Regiment 448, Company 9. The holster is actually marked BA XVII and is the 1914 thru 1918 Battalion marking found on WWI hosters. This one is the 17th Battalion. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

06-14-2002, 03:42 PM	#4
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	<img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> Thanks Guys, I had a feeling that it looked OK, and I did'nt think to put the holster mark in the correct format Herb. John, this is what makes this forum just so great to be able to discuss things with real informed and sensible people. So! OK off I shall go to buy. I will send you a photo of my shopping basket tonight. It's 7.45am Saturday morning here and very cold (winter) Regards, Murray. __________________ Lugers down under

06-14-2002, 04:48 PM	#6
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	I think these unit marking Lugers are fascinating!!! I am so glad we have an expert like Jan Still to help us learn about them! <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" /> __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

06-14-2002, 04:43 PM	#5
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	Murray J.R.448.9.K signifies Infantry Regiment 448, 9 Kompagnie which was part of the 233 and 107 ID during WWI. The BA XVII signifies the 17 th Army Corps, which two of the regiments in the 233ID are from. What this indicates is that, in a round about way, the holster is related to the Luger. The 233 ID battled in Flanders, Lorraine, Kemmel and the Somme during WWI. Jan

06-14-2002, 05:29 PM	#7
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	John Sabato I mistakenly placed my last two postings in this section when I intended to place them in the Unit Markings Section. Can they be moved. Jan

06-15-2002, 12:43 AM	#8
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Many thanks Jan, I managed to purchase the gun (in an auction) today and have just got back from the auction. The auctioneer read out the history of the gun before bidding started as follows; Captured on the Somme by Trooper John Morton Enlisted number 9/308 Otago Mounted Rifles (New Zealand infantry division)Enlisted 16 August 1914 Served in Egypt 1914,1915,1916 Served in the Balkans 1915, Gallipoli,Mudros Served in Western Europe 1916,1917,1918 at Flanders,Somme,Etaples,Abule Discharged 6th June 1919. What an amazing piece of New Zealand War history and I am so honoured to own it. It is complete with board stock, holster, stripping tool, cleaning rod (all imperial proof) and snail drum magazine. Jan, I really apreciate the time you have taken to provide me with the remainder of the history of this wounderful Luger. Many thanks to you all Murray, P.S. I got two other WW1 DWM's as well! Later this evening I will post a photo of my shopping basket which was very full. __________________ Lugers down under

06-15-2002, 11:29 AM	#9
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	Murry Most artillery Luger rigs were put together by collectors long after the end of the war. I am looking forward to the photographs of your rig. It must have been together from the time it was issued to the German soldier in the 448 IR. Likely he lost it at the third battle of the Somme, during the British attack of August 1918, to New Zeland Trooper John Morton. What a piece of history! A real collectors prize. Jan

06-15-2002, 01:48 PM	#10
M38 User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Northern VA Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Good job Murray! What an absolutely facinating piece of history.

06-24-2002, 10:50 PM	#11
Jeff Noll User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 45 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 7 Posts	My book The Imperial German Regimental Marking will solve most of your Regimental Marking translation questions. Take a look at my web site http://home.earthlink.net/~nopubl . The book also contains about 500 lugers with their Regimental Markings and translations. w/r Jeff Noll

06-25-2002, 11:31 AM	#12
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Jan C. Still, I am sorry but I only have the ability to move the entire topic. The only option that I have with individual posts is to edit them or delete them. Please copy your posts individually to the correct forum and when you have done so, if you let me know I will delete the mistaken posts here. thanks, __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*