1916 Navy with Belgium proofs

myky · 01-22-2009, 10:23 AM

All.... Can anyone come up with a plausible reason for this 1916 navy to have belgium proofs ? There are two larger proofs on the barrel and chamber, and smaller proofs on the toggle parts. Upon close examination with a loup, they appear to be under the blue, not applied after blueing, as there is no halo around them, as is the sear bar. There is the number 24 and what looks like an underlined letter c behind 24. The serial number is 478. Come on you navy guys.....

myky · 01-22-2009, 10:35 AM

Here is a closeup of the chamber and barrel proofs. There is no halo around them.

Ron Wood · 01-22-2009, 11:56 AM

Mike,
Belgium, like England, has a requirement for any firearm sold in country to undergo the national proof. It would have been proofed considerably after the gun was manufactured, so the lack of halo indicates that it has been refinished. I don't know what the 24 means but the odd mark next to it is a Belgian inspector's mark.

myky · 01-22-2009, 08:02 PM

Ron.. thanks bud ! Every little bit of info helps. If it has been refinished, I think it had to be done during that period as there is no tell tale indicators that it has been....... that, I have been able to tell in the 50 years that I've been into Lugers...... Have you ever seen another Luger with them in all your years ? Or, any other arms other than Belgian made ones, with these stamps ? Thanks again !!!

G.T. · 01-22-2009, 09:22 PM

WOW, that is just a really, really nice navy!!! I think the different proofs just add to the flavor... nice gun, til...lat'r....GT

Vlim · 01-23-2009, 06:48 AM

myky,

The proof marks on your gun are indeed Belgian and used for foreign guns that enter the Belgian market. So they are normally only found on non-belgian guns. Have seen many examples, including 1911's, .30-M1 Carbines, lugers, etc..

There is an international agreement amongst countries that recognize each other's proof marks, so when a gun proofed in country 1, it will not need reproofing in country 2 (the CIP). Belgium ratified the agreement in 1925 and Germany in 1927. Logic dictates that after 1927 Belgium no longer had to reproof German guns that already had valid German proof marks.

So that would place the proof mark of your Navy between 1918 and 1927.

Vlim · 01-23-2009, 09:16 AM

Pat, the lower (last) picture: 1917 dated?

myky · 01-26-2009, 09:40 PM

Guys..... thanks for your valuable input. This is what I needed. I knew I could count on the forum !! This weekend I purchased a Radom, type 3, with the serial number that has serial number that's over 1000 than the Blue Book lists. # K 3608. I will post it in the correct section tomorrow. It is on my web site www.relicsofthereichs.com if ya'll want to see it before I get it posted on the Forum. Myky

myky · 01-26-2009, 09:50 PM

I went ahead, since I'm already here......

01-22-2009, 10:23 AM	#1
myky User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 178 Thanks: 1 Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts	1916 Navy with Belgium proofs All.... Can anyone come up with a plausible reason for this 1916 navy to have belgium proofs ? There are two larger proofs on the barrel and chamber, and smaller proofs on the toggle parts. Upon close examination with a loup, they appear to be under the blue, not applied after blueing, as there is no halo around them, as is the sear bar. There is the number 24 and what looks like an underlined letter c behind 24. The serial number is 478. Come on you navy guys..... Attached Thumbnails __________________ myky

01-22-2009, 10:35 AM	#2
myky User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 178 Thanks: 1 Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts	1916 navy with belgium proofs Here is a closeup of the chamber and barrel proofs. There is no halo around them. Attached Thumbnails __________________ myky

01-22-2009, 11:56 AM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,987 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,090 Times in 1,675 Posts	Mike, Belgium, like England, has a requirement for any firearm sold in country to undergo the national proof. It would have been proofed considerably after the gun was manufactured, so the lack of halo indicates that it has been refinished. I don't know what the 24 means but the odd mark next to it is a Belgian inspector's mark. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-22-2009, 08:02 PM	#4
myky User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 178 Thanks: 1 Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts	1916 navy with belgian proofs Ron.. thanks bud ! Every little bit of info helps. If it has been refinished, I think it had to be done during that period as there is no tell tale indicators that it has been....... that, I have been able to tell in the 50 years that I've been into Lugers...... Have you ever seen another Luger with them in all your years ? Or, any other arms other than Belgian made ones, with these stamps ? Thanks again !!! __________________ myky

01-22-2009, 09:22 PM	#5
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,486 Thanks: 1,283 Thanked 3,583 Times in 989 Posts	navy... WOW, that is just a really, really nice navy!!! I think the different proofs just add to the flavor... nice gun, til...lat'r....GT

01-23-2009, 06:48 AM	#6
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	myky, The proof marks on your gun are indeed Belgian and used for foreign guns that enter the Belgian market. So they are normally only found on non-belgian guns. Have seen many examples, including 1911's, .30-M1 Carbines, lugers, etc.. There is an international agreement amongst countries that recognize each other's proof marks, so when a gun proofed in country 1, it will not need reproofing in country 2 (the CIP). Belgium ratified the agreement in 1925 and Germany in 1927. Logic dictates that after 1927 Belgium no longer had to reproof German guns that already had valid German proof marks. So that would place the proof mark of your Navy between 1918 and 1927.

01-23-2009, 09:16 AM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	Pat, the lower (last) picture: 1917 dated?

01-26-2009, 09:40 PM	#8
myky User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 178 Thanks: 1 Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts	Guys..... thanks for your valuable input. This is what I needed. I knew I could count on the forum !! This weekend I purchased a Radom, type 3, with the serial number that has serial number that's over 1000 than the Blue Book lists. # K 3608. I will post it in the correct section tomorrow. It is on my web site www.relicsofthereichs.com if ya'll want to see it before I get it posted on the Forum. Myky __________________ myky

01-26-2009, 09:50 PM	#9
myky User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 178 Thanks: 1 Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts	Radom, type 3, 2 lever, K 3608 I went ahead, since I'm already here...... Attached Thumbnails __________________ myky