Is Luger carbine a rifle or a pistol?

[alvin]

If it's classified as a rifle, the receiver (barrel extension) should be recorded in the bound book. If it's a pistol, the s/n grip frame should be recorded.

For non-matching mix master, or gun parts, which s/n should I bookkeep?? Thanks

[Edward Tinker]

What does the BATF say?

They call it a luger carbine, so I would use the frame;

On pistols it is the frame, not the receiver that is recorded, so never use the receiver, on mix-masters, I think I'd make a notation saying so.


Ed

[Lugerdoc]

Alvin, A non original "Carbine" with a barrel longer than 16" would be classified as a rifle and as usual, the frame number should be recorded. In the case of an original carbine, where the forestock extention has been installed over the frame serial, the number on the bottom of the 300mm (11&7/8ths") barrel is controlling. Lugerdoc

[John Sabato]

The BATFE has historically used the grip frame serial number as the registered part of a Luger pistol. Probably because MOST automatic pistols have their full serial number recorded on that part.

The carbine is a special case as Lugerdoc has described.

In my own humble opinion, the BATFE has always been wrong on this point because they have always felt that the part of the handgun that controls or allows the weapon to be fired is the grip FRAME. (Corrected based on Ron Wood's fabulous powers of discernment and his posting below, and my obvious error )

The Luger pistol is unique to the best of my knowledge in that a complete upper receiver is all that is required to fire a shot... merely by loading a cartridge in the chamber, closing the toggle and depressing the sear bar manually...

WARNING ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME... Don't ask how I know

...even in a padded gloved hand, this would not be a comfortable method for discharging a 9mm round.

Yet the BATF allows the top half of a Luger pistol to move in interstate commerce between unlicensed persons... but requires the frame to be transferred only between licensed FFL and C&R holders... but of course that makes as much sense as much of what the federal bureaucracy does

[Ron Wood]

John,
Unless I am misunderstanding what you mean it appears that you have a typographical error in your post..."BATFE has always been wrong on this point because they have always felt that the part of the handgun that controls or allows the weapon to be fired is the receiver"...should be frame.

[Edward Tinker]

I think the Nambu T14 and T94 can be off of the frame and still fire too.


Personally i don't think I want to give them additional ideas and ways to limit what can and can't be shipped...

I've always thought it a bit silly that the frame, compeletly stripped is still considered a firearm, so can't be sent to anyone w/out an FFL

[John Sabato]

Ron you are correct... it should have read FRAME... just a senior moment... thanks for the correction.

Ed, BATFE isn't stupid... they don't need any suggestions to change things

... they are just a bureaucracy that makes big mistakes... They will never get the CLASS 3 register fixed...just as an example. It would admit too much error on their part... and they never listen to the peanut gallery cause they are ALWAYS right.