16" barrel Weimar commercial 1920

VaNavy · 05-21-2021, 03:47 PM

Looking for help figuring this Luger out. Crown N Commercial proof, Weimar 1920 date, matching serial numbers including the magazine but it has a 16 inch commercial crown U marked barrel with matching serial number. Any guesses?

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HerrKaiser · 05-21-2021, 03:51 PM

The commercial guns in the 1920’s came in all sorts of configurations. These longer barreled carbine assemblies included. The front stock doesn’t seem to be DWM factory vintage though.

The magazine seems to be Weimar/3rd Reich period for a military gun.

Doubs · 05-22-2021, 01:57 AM

In the period following WW1, Lugers were made with many different barrel lengths including 16 inches but the fore-stock looks to be made from an old rifle stock. The workmanship appears to be somewhat questionable and I suspect it didn't come from Germany that way.

Lugerdoc · 05-22-2021, 09:45 AM

Judging from the way the fore stock is attached to the barrel, this is one of the new aftermarket barrels that Numrich is still trying to sell. TH

rolandtg · 05-22-2021, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lugerdoc

Judging from the way the fore stock is attached to the barrel, this is one of the new aftermarket barrels that Numrich is still trying to sell. TH

It does resemble the Numrich barrel and stock but who would bother to stamp the barrel?

Here's a 16" Numrich barrel to compare. I have never tried to fire it.
Here's a close up of the flange. The profile is different than a regular barrel.
I don't have a better image at the moment.

cirelaw · 05-22-2021, 02:43 PM

Years ago on 'Relics Of The Reich' was selling a 1923 luger with a longer barrel than an artillery. I think I also saw it pictured in Harry Jones book! Ill take a look, no stock! Something like this!

cirelaw · 05-22-2021, 03:46 PM

Found It At 'Lugers At Random'. Page 158, 1920 Long Barrel Commercial~

ithacaartist · 05-22-2021, 10:15 PM

Barrels that are too heavy mess with how the action cycles. The early .30 Luger Carbines, of course , had a helper spring in the fore stock to help return the gun to battery, and the barrel and extension moved independently of the furniture.

This one makes me wonder whether the shooter needs to pump the fore stock like a shotgun...y'know, to help get that big pipe back into battery.

sheepherder · 05-22-2021, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

This one makes me wonder whether the shooter needs to pump the fore stock like a shotgun...y'know, to help get that big pipe back into battery.

I was thinking that if you had a good grip on the fore-end/barrel and just touched the trigger, the frame would 'anti-recoil' forward...

Lugerdoc · 05-24-2021, 09:43 AM

After WW1 many surplus military 9mm PO8s and new 7.65mm 20 commerical lugers were imported into the USA by Stoeger on the east coast or Pacific Arms on the west. Both firms offered in their catalogs barrel instalation options of either caliber and barrel lengths up to 24'. Most of these longer barrels came with the LPO8 type tangent rear sights. TH

cirelaw · 05-24-2021, 10:22 AM

Pacific Arms~https://w.landofborchardt.com/PAC.html

DonVoigt · 05-27-2021, 09:53 AM

"It does resemble the Numrich barrel and stock but who would bother to stamp the barrel?"

And "who" would use the wrong marking? The C/U stamp was not in use in the 1920s either.

But- "who" also had a lot of number/letter stamps and made a kind of numbers matching
"Franken-luger".

Edward Tinker · 05-27-2021, 10:53 AM

I have had two 16 inch shooters that have that same older (60's/70's) fore end. Neither could I get them to work correctly.
Only 16 inch 9mm I could get to work was the one that Eugene made for me, it shot just fine.

Lugerdoc · 05-28-2021, 11:26 AM

Ed, I agree that getting a 16' barrelled luger to function reliability is difficult. Due to the weight of this longer barrel, the recoil spring will have to be lighter. This tend to reduce the toggle return, unless all mating surfaces of the frame & receiver have the minimum amount of friction. TH

sheepherder · 05-28-2021, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

"It does resemble the Numrich barrel and stock but who would bother to stamp the barrel?"

And "who" would use the wrong marking? The C/U stamp was not in use in the 1920s either.

But- "who" also had a lot of number/letter stamps and made a kind of numbers matching
"Franken-luger".

You'll have to give us more clues than that...

cirelaw · 05-28-2021, 05:10 PM

found a 20 inches~ https://www.icollector.com/item.aspx?i=21575686

05-21-2021, 03:47 PM	#1
VaNavy New User Join Date: Nov 2020 Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	16" barrel Weimar commercial 1920 Looking for help figuring this Luger out. Crown N Commercial proof, Weimar 1920 date, matching serial numbers including the magazine but it has a 16 inch commercial crown U marked barrel with matching serial number. Any guesses? Last edited by VaNavy; 05-21-2021 at 04:56 PM.

05-21-2021, 03:51 PM	#2
HerrKaiser User Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: South Carolina Posts: 800 Thanks: 750 Thanked 793 Times in 376 Posts	The commercial guns in the 1920’s came in all sorts of configurations. These longer barreled carbine assemblies included. The front stock doesn’t seem to be DWM factory vintage though. The magazine seems to be Weimar/3rd Reich period for a military gun. __________________ -QM Looking for Mauser S/42 toggle train #22

05-22-2021, 09:45 AM	#4
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Judging from the way the fore stock is attached to the barrel, this is one of the new aftermarket barrels that Numrich is still trying to sell. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

05-22-2021, 02:43 PM	#6
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Years ago on 'Relics Of The Reich' was selling a 1923 luger with a longer barrel than an artillery. I think I also saw it pictured in Harry Jones book! Ill take a look, no stock! Something like this! Attached Thumbnails

05-22-2021, 10:15 PM	#8
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,282 Thanks: 7,007 Thanked 2,476 Times in 1,319 Posts	Barrels that are too heavy mess with how the action cycles. The early .30 Luger Carbines, of course , had a helper spring in the fore stock to help return the gun to battery, and the barrel and extension moved independently of the furniture. This one makes me wonder whether the shooter needs to pump the fore stock like a shotgun...y'know, to help get that big pipe back into battery. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

05-22-2021, 01:57 AM	#3
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	In the period following WW1, Lugers were made with many different barrel lengths including 16 inches but the fore-stock looks to be made from an old rifle stock. The workmanship appears to be somewhat questionable and I suspect it didn't come from Germany that way.

05-22-2021, 03:46 PM	#7
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Found It At 'Lugers At Random'. Page 158, 1920 Long Barrel Commercial~

05-24-2021, 09:43 AM	#10
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	After WW1 many surplus military 9mm PO8s and new 7.65mm 20 commerical lugers were imported into the USA by Stoeger on the east coast or Pacific Arms on the west. Both firms offered in their catalogs barrel instalation options of either caliber and barrel lengths up to 24'. Most of these longer barrels came with the LPO8 type tangent rear sights. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

05-24-2021, 10:22 AM	#11
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Pacific Arms~https://w.landofborchardt.com/PAC.html Attached Thumbnails

05-27-2021, 09:53 AM	#12
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	"It does resemble the Numrich barrel and stock but who would bother to stamp the barrel?" And "who" would use the wrong marking? The C/U stamp was not in use in the 1920s either. But- "who" also had a lot of number/letter stamps and made a kind of numbers matching "Franken-luger". __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

05-27-2021, 10:53 AM	#13
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	I have had two 16 inch shooters that have that same older (60's/70's) fore end. Neither could I get them to work correctly. Only 16 inch 9mm I could get to work was the one that Eugene made for me, it shot just fine.

05-28-2021, 11:26 AM	#14
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Ed, I agree that getting a 16' barrelled luger to function reliability is difficult. Due to the weight of this longer barrel, the recoil spring will have to be lighter. This tend to reduce the toggle return, unless all mating surfaces of the frame & receiver have the minimum amount of friction. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

05-28-2021, 05:10 PM	#16
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	found a 20 inches~ https://www.icollector.com/item.aspx?i=21575686