Latest News on the British Ban on Handguns - Page 2

John Sabato · 04-20-2001, 02:55 PM

Just got this in an email from my brother who leans a little toward the liberal side:

Cartoon from either the Sep. or Oct. issue of the New Yorker:

Guy at the gates of heaven, trying to get in wearing a holster and pistol. St. Peter tells him "Trust me - it is NOT a God-given right."

this was my reply:

[soapbox on]

I would certainly expect that kind of cartoon in the New Yorker magazine. Not exactly a conservative rag.

Here are some words that I think explain it best. Maybe you have seen them before... This was part of a short but powerful publication a very long time ago.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are LIFE, LIBERTY and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

How much plainer could it be? Even a change in "the consent of the governed" doesn't change a person's inalienable rights. You can unjustly eliminate the ability to exercise a right, but not the right because it isn't anyone's to take away except HE who created it.

In the same manner that you can't have responsibility without authority, you can't have life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness without possessing the means to sustain it... and those means have to be sufficient enough to defeat those who would otherwise take it away from you. If you can't defeat any enemy of your unalienable existence, then you have no freedom at all. You only have the time until they take what is rightly yours.

The second amendment is the ONLY provision in the constitution that provides the PEOPLE (from whom the just power of the government is derived) with the necessary defense against tyranny that can occur even from within, and guarantees the survival of all the other unalienable human LIBERTY that is recognized, not granted by the constitution.

[soapbox off]

Have a great weekend all...

-John

Ted · 04-20-2001, 05:06 PM

My Dear old Daddy used to tell me "Son....when you are NOT willing to fight for your freedom, you will surely loose it"

We have to have the means to be ABLE to do this. That mechanism is being armed both with weapons and knowledge.

All the famous people that dicated their will on the masses had the smarts to know you first take the guns away then you cram your dicatorial views and mandates down their throats, they may choke a little but they will swallow it and COMPLY because they are FORCED too, Are free people willing to be forced? I think not! As long as you are armed you have a chance for freedom, take that away and...........get ready to be forced. A people that are not truely free will be herded like cattle, told what to believe, told where to go, told how to live. Freedom of speech and gun ownership are of paramount importance to us remaining a free people. Already signs of eerosion of those freedoms are showing up. The lack of States rights and the power of the Federal Government scares the hell out of me. The Federal Government by our founding fathers documents should have a limited amount of control over us instead of the almost complete control they try, and many times do, have over the states AND their citizens. The gun grabbers MUST be told we are willing to fight for our gun ownership, not merely that we will cry a little about giving them up. For fight we must, or freedom is dead......and gone! I think about NAZI Germany and how they took the guns from those people then stood them up against the wall and shot them. I for one prefer and will have at LEAST a fighting chance to resist if I keep my firearms.

Rick K · 04-20-2001, 06:18 PM

Gun Control & The Mass

Extermination Of Human Beings

From James Mortellaro docgripple@juno.com>

From George R. Pisani

5-17-00

"In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From

1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to

defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

"In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to

1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend

themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

"Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939

to 1945, 13 million Jews and others who were unable to

defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

"China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to

1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend

themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

"Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964

to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend

themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

"Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to

1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves,

were rounded up and exterminated.

"Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975

to 1977, one million 'educated' people, unable to defend

themselves, were rounded up and exterminated."

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the

20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.

The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, ask

them "Who do YOU want to round up and exterminate?"

With guns, we are citizens. Without them, we are

subjects.

Matt · 04-21-2001, 12:12 AM

This is way off topic and a view that might offend some, but the war on drugs makes me think about how gun owners will be treated in the legal system if guns are banned. As a newspaper reporter covering law enforcement and court beats, I can tell you our courts and jails are clogged with minor drug offenders. Drug offenders often get more prison time than child molesters or armed robbers. Yes, I know, drug addicts often commit other crimes, but it seems absurd that they are punished more than violent criminals. When I told a local official I did not think the war on drugs could be won unless we ripped up the Constitution, he agreed with me, and said enforcement of drug laws has already resulted in the constitution being "ripped up" because of the war on drugs, specifically with regard to search and seizure. I don't really want to see drugs legalized and don't get me wrong, I am anti-drug and pro-law enforcement, but some laws do not work and do more harm than good. Alcohol prohibition is one example. I shudder to think about how much more our legal system will be clogged if guns are banned. Just think about how many gun owners will be sent to prison, taking up already overcrowded space that should be reserved for violent career criminals!

04-20-2001, 02:55 PM	#21
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	An addendum... ( a little more room on the soapbox-Please) Just got this in an email from my brother who leans a little toward the liberal side: Cartoon from either the Sep. or Oct. issue of the New Yorker: Guy at the gates of heaven, trying to get in wearing a holster and pistol. St. Peter tells him "Trust me - it is NOT a God-given right." this was my reply: [soapbox on] I would certainly expect that kind of cartoon in the New Yorker magazine. Not exactly a conservative rag. Here are some words that I think explain it best. Maybe you have seen them before... This was part of a short but powerful publication a very long time ago. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are LIFE, LIBERTY and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." How much plainer could it be? Even a change in "the consent of the governed" doesn't change a person's inalienable rights. You can unjustly eliminate the ability to exercise a right, but not the right because it isn't anyone's to take away except HE who created it. In the same manner that you can't have responsibility without authority, you can't have life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness without possessing the means to sustain it... and those means have to be sufficient enough to defeat those who would otherwise take it away from you. If you can't defeat any enemy of your unalienable existence, then you have no freedom at all. You only have the time until they take what is rightly yours. The second amendment is the ONLY provision in the constitution that provides the PEOPLE (from whom the just power of the government is derived) with the necessary defense against tyranny that can occur even from within, and guarantees the survival of all the other unalienable human LIBERTY that is recognized, not granted by the constitution. [soapbox off] Have a great weekend all... -John

04-20-2001, 05:06 PM	#22
Ted User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: SC Posts: 726 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: An addendum... ( a little more room on the soapbox-Please) My Dear old Daddy used to tell me "Son....when you are NOT willing to fight for your freedom, you will surely loose it" We have to have the means to be ABLE to do this. That mechanism is being armed both with weapons and knowledge. All the famous people that dicated their will on the masses had the smarts to know you first take the guns away then you cram your dicatorial views and mandates down their throats, they may choke a little but they will swallow it and COMPLY because they are FORCED too, Are free people willing to be forced? I think not! As long as you are armed you have a chance for freedom, take that away and...........get ready to be forced. A people that are not truely free will be herded like cattle, told what to believe, told where to go, told how to live. Freedom of speech and gun ownership are of paramount importance to us remaining a free people. Already signs of eerosion of those freedoms are showing up. The lack of States rights and the power of the Federal Government scares the hell out of me. The Federal Government by our founding fathers documents should have a limited amount of control over us instead of the almost complete control they try, and many times do, have over the states AND their citizens. The gun grabbers MUST be told we are willing to fight for our gun ownership, not merely that we will cry a little about giving them up. For fight we must, or freedom is dead......and gone! I think about NAZI Germany and how they took the guns from those people then stood them up against the wall and shot them. I for one prefer and will have at LEAST a fighting chance to resist if I keep my firearms.

04-20-2001, 06:18 PM	#23
Rick K User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Cochran, GA Posts: 305 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here's an article that impressed me on this subject.. Gun Control & The Mass Extermination Of Human Beings From James Mortellaro docgripple@juno.com> From George R. Pisani 5-17-00 "In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. "In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. "Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated. "China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. "Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. "Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. "Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated." Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million. The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, ask them "Who do YOU want to round up and exterminate?" With guns, we are citizens. Without them, we are subjects.

04-21-2001, 12:12 AM	#24
Matt User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 196 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Here's an article that impressed me on this subject.. This is way off topic and a view that might offend some, but the war on drugs makes me think about how gun owners will be treated in the legal system if guns are banned. As a newspaper reporter covering law enforcement and court beats, I can tell you our courts and jails are clogged with minor drug offenders. Drug offenders often get more prison time than child molesters or armed robbers. Yes, I know, drug addicts often commit other crimes, but it seems absurd that they are punished more than violent criminals. When I told a local official I did not think the war on drugs could be won unless we ripped up the Constitution, he agreed with me, and said enforcement of drug laws has already resulted in the constitution being "ripped up" because of the war on drugs, specifically with regard to search and seizure. I don't really want to see drugs legalized and don't get me wrong, I am anti-drug and pro-law enforcement, but some laws do not work and do more harm than good. Alcohol prohibition is one example. I shudder to think about how much more our legal system will be clogged if guns are banned. Just think about how many gun owners will be sent to prison, taking up already overcrowded space that should be reserved for violent career criminals!