The "X"

[Kyrie]

Hi Orv,


Purely as a data point, I have personally examined a 1940 dated, 42 coded Luger, stamped with the â??Xâ?� that was never in Soviet Russian hands. The Soviets may well have used the â??Xâ?� stamp, but if so they were not the only ones to do so. Attributing any specific â??Xâ?� stamp to any specific origin is risky.


Best regards,


Kyrie

[Orv Reichert]

True, Kyrie...and, I should have said that my comments pertain only to the P38. But the X on the guns from the former USSR is generaly made with two strikes of a chisel and not a letter stamp...readily recognized as such. sometimes, they don't even cross!


The latest 'PLOY' is that the sellers are referring to it as a 'CAPTURE MARK' [whatever that means?]


Orv

[Kyrie]

Hi Orv,


This one is a fascinating subject. We know the Germans sometimes marked firearms (and Lugers in particular) with an â??Xâ?�, and reasonably believe the Soviets may have done so to - but only on some captured arms. We have no solid information on why the â??Xâ?� was used by anyone, but do have near endless fun and entertaining speculation. My favorite poser is, â??If the Soviets did make the â??Xâ?�, why on some firearms and not on others?â?� And I mean that as an honest question rather than as an argument that some of the â??Xâ?� marks arenâ??t Soviet.


Maybe someday someone will come across an old Soviet document that can shed some light on this one - I certainly hope so!


Best regards,


Kyrie

[bill m]

Hi Kyrie,

Do we know that the Germans marked Lugers with an X? How do we know this? I have looked at a lot of Mauser produced Lugers and I have never seen a single original issued Luger with an "X" on it. The only "X" that I am aware of on a Luger is the import ones. From what I have gotten out of this post, the suggestion is that the Germans had a large supply of rejected Lugers with an "X" on them, and the Soviets over-ran the storage before they were destroyed? I find this concept very hard to believe because if the Lugers were rejects they never would have passed the testing and would not have a accepted test proof. In my opinion, the "X" mark is strictly a post WWII mark and is strictly not a German Military or police mark of WWII. I am not aware of any information available to suggest that the "X" had anything to do with original WWII Lugers, and only started showing up when the Soviet imports Lugers started showing up, so please share any information that suggests otherwise. Thanks. --

I have a 1939 Luger with an X stamped or engraved on the bottom of the frame in front of the trigger guard , below a 3 digit #.[I assume is the serial #] My father brought this gun home from WWII. He came home in 1944. I have been trying to get more info about this gun, nothing seems to come together. It has matching part #'s. [Mauser] logo on top, 1939 stamped on the receiver on top, and a German Eagle with an X inside of a circle with a letter L in front of the logo. this is on the right side. On the left side of the receiver in front of the trigger above the serial # is a logo horizontally a crown with a U under it. Any info would be appreciated. thanks Ed.

[bill m]

Hi,

You have what is called a Mauser Banner Police Luger. The date of manufacture was 1939, the Mauser is referred to as a Banner, the E/L on the right receiver is the police acceptance mark, and the Crown U on the left receiver is the commercial inspection mark, which is actually a test mark on these police guns. The "X" below the serial number on your Luger I am presuming is part of the serial number -- for instance 295 X. All of the 1939 E/L police Lugers had a letter suffix with the serial number. The 1939 E/L's are only found in the W and X suffix. Your serial number is actually 295x and not 295. These are nice Lugers and are fairly hard to find.

[Kyrie]

Hi Bill,


See my post in reply to Orv, above. Lugers with the â??Xâ?� were observed long before the recent rash of imports, and this is why there is an entry for the â??Xâ?� mark in Costanzo.


The â??Soviets captured a bunch of Lugers marked for destructionâ?� is yet one more pure speculation concerning the â??Xâ?�, and nothing more. It assumes pistols withdrawn from service as beyond repair or salvage. The simple truth is we have no evidence of who (other than the Germans) marked the Lugers with the â??Xâ?�, when they were marked, or what the â??Xâ?� means. We donâ??t even know if there was more than one agency involved in the â??Xâ?� mark. We do know the Third Reich used the â??Xâ?�, as it has been found on Lugers fully provenanced from capture until they were examined. Beyond that, all is speculation.


Best regards,


Kyrie