Question on 1918 DWM Military

Double T · 07-09-2002, 10:33 PM

While searching for details on my 1918 DWM, I found a mark that I haven't seen mentioned here and I'd like to know what it means. It is located on the base of the front sight. If you were looking down the bore, the mark would be on the bottom right hand corner of the sight. It is a letter N with a circle around it. It appears that the die was struck uneven and the mark is shallow on one side, so I'm not certain if the circle is complete or not. Anyone? I'll try to unload a pic, but I'm not having much luck with the sizes.

Thanks,
Double T

John D. · 07-09-2002, 10:57 PM

Hi DoubleT...!!!

OK - try this image.. I reduced it by 75% and cleaned up the pixelation... Let me know how it works...
(I wish I knew the answer to your question as well - but I have NO IDEA!!! [img]smile.gif[/img] )..

Double T · 07-09-2002, 11:27 PM

Thanks John.

Your fix-up looks pretty much like it does in the original. I think one of my problems is that I had the camera resolution set too high for web photos... something like 2600 by something or other. I'm learning to use it now and will take future pics for web usage at a much lower resolution. I'm getting my site up and will have details posted there as well.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who has never seen the mark on the sights..

Lonnie Zimmerman · 07-10-2002, 12:16 AM

I don"t know what it means, but my 1918 (d) has the same exact mark, while my 1917 DWM has the n with out the marks around it.
Lonnie

Doubs · 07-10-2002, 12:29 AM

DT, the best solution is to take your pictures at the highest possible resolution and then reduce their size using your photo-imaging program. Your camera may have come with a program (my Agfa did)or you may require an after-market program. They can run from inexpensive to about any price you may want to pay. They should all permit you to reduce your image size.

Once I crop and change the pixels-per-inch to 72 for web use, I resize to a width of four or five inches. I sharpen the new image and then I save the new image under a different name than the original image. NEVER manipulate your original and save the results as the original. ALWAYS keep your original just as you took it.

Most programs are not difficult to work with and you'll be a wiz at it in no time.

Jerry Harris · 07-10-2002, 04:30 AM

Double T,
I had to get out a magnifier to see it, but my 1918 DWM military (h-block serial No.) also has the circle-N on the front sight base, partially struck. Without your picture, I wouldn't have been sure what it was. Now I'll raise you one -- my 1918 has a circle-N stamp on the stop lug, the D-shaped lug on the bottom of the receiver just behind the barrel joint flange (must remove cannon to see it). I dimly remember someone asking about the lug stamp in a previous post. There's gotta be an answer!

Heydrich · 07-10-2002, 04:58 AM

My 1918 DWM also has the stamp with the N in the circle at that spot. There is also a "1" stamped to the left of that on the other side.

Lugerdoc · 07-10-2002, 08:09 AM

I propose that all of the marks described above are inspector's marks from gauging the height of the sight base. You'll often find the same N in a circle, inside the front take down lever well of the frame of both WW1 military and 20 commerical (perhaps reworks of the same) DWM production. Tom H

Double T · 07-10-2002, 08:42 AM

I appreciate all of the suggestions on photos. I'm using a Nikon CP5000 which came with software and my favorite photo software is MGI Photo Suite 4. I'm done some learning since I posted the sight pic and believe I am on the way. Perhaps I'll try some other shots and see how it goes.

And, I can conclude that the N stamp on my DWM is not unusual [img]wink.gif[/img] . It has one other icon that I don't recognize... maybe I can get a shot of it posted tonight.

Thanks to all
DT

Carl · 07-10-2002, 08:55 AM

Just a thought. Could some other company have
been making the sights? Germany was a cottage industry country. There are many examples of this.

John Sabato · 07-10-2002, 10:31 AM

Carl, what you say about some other company making the front sights may or may not be true, but the front sight base is machined directly from the barrel blank stock and couldn't have been done by an outside contractor unless they made the whole barrel.

In that time period, to the best of my recollection (I am old but not that old!), only DWM and Erfurt were making Luger barrels...

Dwight Gruber · 07-10-2002, 11:24 AM

Fwiw, neither my 1917 Artillery (k block) nor my 1917 Navy have any mark in that location.

--Dwight

Navy · 07-10-2002, 10:13 PM

To add to the data base:

DWM, Sn: 7278 f 1915 and DWM, 4723 (no suffix) 1918 Also have the funny muzzle mark on the sight base; to make matters interseting,DWM Sn 7141 dated 1913 have the same marking; DWM, Sn 5696 s, dated 1921 has the arabic number 1 ;(off topic editorial comment deleted by administrator)

As time permits I will look at others in my collection. I suspect that this is little more than a variation on inspectors markings..

Tom A. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Jerry Harris · 07-11-2002, 11:43 PM

Lugerdoc,
I too have a very clear circle-N stamp in the takedown lever well inside the frame (1918 DWM). It is indeed beginning to sound like an inspection mark, but generic or linked to an individual person's initial, like some of the proof marks? If generic, what does the N stand for?

As others have hinted, the variety of numbers and letters inside the frame and other places, not covered in books, is mind-boggling.

Lugerdoc · 07-12-2002, 12:08 AM

Jerry, Don't let your mind get boggled trying to figure out the German factory inspectors symbols. If you consider inspectors symbols important, spend your time remembering those that are know such as on the Swiss lugers and the US M1911s & A1s. Tom H.

John Sabato · 07-12-2002, 02:13 PM

I will have to check my 1914 Efurt artillery and get back to you guys... I never inspected that before.

07-09-2002, 10:33 PM	#1
Double T User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Eufaula, Alabama Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Question on 1918 DWM Military While searching for details on my 1918 DWM, I found a mark that I haven't seen mentioned here and I'd like to know what it means. It is located on the base of the front sight. If you were looking down the bore, the mark would be on the bottom right hand corner of the sight. It is a letter N with a circle around it. It appears that the die was struck uneven and the mark is shallow on one side, so I'm not certain if the circle is complete or not. Anyone? I'll try to unload a pic, but I'm not having much luck with the sizes. Thanks, Double T

07-10-2002, 12:16 AM	#4
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I don"t know what it means, but my 1918 (d) has the same exact mark, while my 1917 DWM has the n with out the marks around it. Lonnie __________________ Lonnie Zimmerman

07-10-2002, 08:09 AM	#8
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	I propose that all of the marks described above are inspector's marks from gauging the height of the sight base. You'll often find the same N in a circle, inside the front take down lever well of the frame of both WW1 military and 20 commerical (perhaps reworks of the same) DWM production. Tom H __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

07-10-2002, 10:31 AM	#11
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Carl, what you say about some other company making the front sights may or may not be true, but the front sight base is machined directly from the barrel blank stock and couldn't have been done by an outside contractor unless they made the whole barrel. In that time period, to the best of my recollection (I am old but not that old!), only DWM and Erfurt were making Luger barrels... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-12-2002, 12:08 AM	#15
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Jerry, Don't let your mind get boggled trying to figure out the German factory inspectors symbols. If you consider inspectors symbols important, spend your time remembering those that are know such as on the Swiss lugers and the US M1911s & A1s. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

07-09-2002, 10:57 PM	#2
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 471 Thanked 513 Times in 127 Posts	Hi DoubleT...!!! OK - try this image.. I reduced it by 75% and cleaned up the pixelation... Let me know how it works... (I wish I knew the answer to your question as well - but I have NO IDEA!!! [img]smile.gif[/img] )..

07-09-2002, 11:27 PM	#3
Double T User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Eufaula, Alabama Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks John. Your fix-up looks pretty much like it does in the original. I think one of my problems is that I had the camera resolution set too high for web photos... something like 2600 by something or other. I'm learning to use it now and will take future pics for web usage at a much lower resolution. I'm getting my site up and will have details posted there as well. I'm glad that I'm not the only one who has never seen the mark on the sights..

07-10-2002, 12:29 AM	#5
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	DT, the best solution is to take your pictures at the highest possible resolution and then reduce their size using your photo-imaging program. Your camera may have come with a program (my Agfa did)or you may require an after-market program. They can run from inexpensive to about any price you may want to pay. They should all permit you to reduce your image size. Once I crop and change the pixels-per-inch to 72 for web use, I resize to a width of four or five inches. I sharpen the new image and then I save the new image under a different name than the original image. NEVER manipulate your original and save the results as the original. ALWAYS keep your original just as you took it. Most programs are not difficult to work with and you'll be a wiz at it in no time.

07-10-2002, 04:30 AM	#6
Jerry Harris User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 64 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Double T, I had to get out a magnifier to see it, but my 1918 DWM military (h-block serial No.) also has the circle-N on the front sight base, partially struck. Without your picture, I wouldn't have been sure what it was. Now I'll raise you one -- my 1918 has a circle-N stamp on the stop lug, the D-shaped lug on the bottom of the receiver just behind the barrel joint flange (must remove cannon to see it). I dimly remember someone asking about the lug stamp in a previous post. There's gotta be an answer!

07-10-2002, 04:58 AM	#7
Heydrich Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 181 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My 1918 DWM also has the stamp with the N in the circle at that spot. There is also a "1" stamped to the left of that on the other side.

07-10-2002, 08:42 AM	#9
Double T User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Eufaula, Alabama Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I appreciate all of the suggestions on photos. I'm using a Nikon CP5000 which came with software and my favorite photo software is MGI Photo Suite 4. I'm done some learning since I posted the sight pic and believe I am on the way. Perhaps I'll try some other shots and see how it goes. And, I can conclude that the N stamp on my DWM is not unusual [img]wink.gif[/img] . It has one other icon that I don't recognize... maybe I can get a shot of it posted tonight. Thanks to all DT

07-10-2002, 08:55 AM	#10
Carl User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Central PA Posts: 113 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts	Just a thought. Could some other company have been making the sights? Germany was a cottage industry country. There are many examples of this.

07-10-2002, 11:24 AM	#12
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	Fwiw, neither my 1917 Artillery (k block) nor my 1917 Navy have any mark in that location. --Dwight

07-10-2002, 10:13 PM	#13
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	To add to the data base: DWM, Sn: 7278 f 1915 and DWM, 4723 (no suffix) 1918 Also have the funny muzzle mark on the sight base; to make matters interseting,DWM Sn 7141 dated 1913 have the same marking; DWM, Sn 5696 s, dated 1921 has the arabic number 1 ;(off topic editorial comment deleted by administrator) As time permits I will look at others in my collection. I suspect that this is little more than a variation on inspectors markings.. Tom A. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

07-11-2002, 11:43 PM	#14
Jerry Harris User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 64 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Lugerdoc, I too have a very clear circle-N stamp in the takedown lever well inside the frame (1918 DWM). It is indeed beginning to sound like an inspection mark, but generic or linked to an individual person's initial, like some of the proof marks? If generic, what does the N stand for? As others have hinted, the variety of numbers and letters inside the frame and other places, not covered in books, is mind-boggling.

07-12-2002, 02:13 PM	#16
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I will have to check my 1914 Efurt artillery and get back to you guys... I never inspected that before. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*