East German Reworks

Karl · 06-17-2002, 08:18 PM

Colleagues,

FYI, www.brocksguns.com (scroll down to East German Lugers). Prices and descriptions suggest that these are being offered not so much as shooters but more as collector guns. Are East German reworks such as these going to eventually acquire the status of collector pieces like Weimar reworks? Are these prices warrented? Several of these guns interest me, they just seem a few hundred too high. What markings (such as E. German sunburst) would be desirable to the future collector? In other words, how do you prove it's an E. German rework and not just a mismatched gun with renumbered parts and a cheap re-blue? [img]confused.gif[/img] KFS

Skookum · 06-17-2002, 09:43 PM

I studied the discriptions of these pieces very carefully when they first became available from Brocks and came to the conclusion that they are richly valued by the seller. I believe that given the number of pieces left unsold, that conclusion has been born out by the fact that there have been few takers at current prices.

TheRomanhistorian · 06-18-2002, 11:02 PM

I think eventually all Lugers (pre-Stoeger/AIMCO/Mitchell of course) will be 'collectors' items,in the sense we are familiar with, one day. But the East German reworks just didn't seem all that exciting to me honestly. I felt they were more like shooters than collectables. That said I would not mind adding a few of them to my current P-08 collection (Which consists right now of 1 shooter.) But those prices are kind of steep and since they haven't sold yet I'm guessing they're not quite 'collectable' yet?

Anyway, I think I had a point in there but I may have lost it. This summer vacation thing is destroying my brain, must get back to school and homework! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Michael Ng

Doubs · 06-21-2002, 12:32 PM

It's my opinion that the East German re-works being offered at this time are terribly over-priced. There's a gun store near me with two that are priced at $600 each and I saw a Shotgun News ad for them recently at $799!!! In contrast, an all-matching 1918 DWM in excellent condition with holster and tool went for $750 at auction here last weekend.

I've owned several E. German re-works and presently own two. One is a complete mismatch and is my shooter. The other is a 1917 Erfurt with all matching numbers except for the side plate. The grips and grip screws are also replacements. The two matching numbered mags are not original to the gun but it's pretty representative of the E. German pistols.

Again, in my opinion, the East German re-works will eventually become collector pieces in their own right. They'll never command the prices brought by original matching guns but their value will increase. After all, they are as much a part of Luger history as the post-WW1 re-works that seem to have a following today.

MarkC · 06-21-2002, 04:28 PM

I was lucky and got a copy of the list before it became posted on their website and had first pick. I paid about a grand for an all matching 2nd variation K date that Thor is doing over for me. Also got a real nice matching, 41/42 date from them as well. I sent the "black widow" back when I saw it had a commercially proofed barrel. Overall the good stuff went first and now the junk is left.

Thor · 06-21-2002, 04:49 PM

I got a nice First Variation K date as Mark was nice enough to include me in "first pickins" These are dipped reblued already! I am restoring mine just for my collection.

wterrell · 06-21-2002, 04:51 PM

MarkC,
Why would you take a matching Luger and then have the original finish taken off? Or, as I understand Thor, is the finish not original?

Thor · 06-21-2002, 09:26 PM

Mine was not the original finish and as you can see they not only dipped blued (cold blue) the gun but the small parts as well.

Marvin · 06-22-2002, 06:36 AM

When I was in Florida last year on assignment, I found a nice E. German "K" Date for $650. It was all matching, except for the barrel which was a new E. German made and proofed one. Overall, the pistol is in excellent condition and the bluing is not the dip blue, but a decent hot salt blue.

I talked with Ted about having it restored, but decided that MAYBE, these may be a collectible in thier own right one of these days and decided not to do anything to it. I feel they are a distinct variation since the work was done by a Government authority. This rework is similar to the statement in a thread above about the Weimar Era reworks being a variation. The E/ German reworks will probably never have the value of an original of course, but they are still neat pistols.

Marvin

Doubs · 06-22-2002, 12:49 PM

One thing to look for on E. German reworked Lugers is a barrel/chamber reline sleeve. Without exception, the dozen or so E. German reworks I've examined have had a relined barrel that included about 1/2 of the chamber. A close look into the chamber will show the line where the liner meets the remaining original barrel chamber. A close look at the muzzle will also show the concentric circle where the liner meets the barrel. The work on all I've seen has been well done and easy to miss unless you're looking for it.

I clearly won't claim that ALL E. German reworked pistols will have the liner but the ones I've had in hand have had them. Some of the barrels will undoubtedly be completely original and some will have new barrels but relining seems to have been common practice.

Bud · 06-25-2002, 04:16 AM

Oh yeah, those Eastern arsenals sure did a "good" job reworking my 1937 luger. What with all those new and shiny parts put on it, likely from some master armorors's kit or such. And after all the rebuilding process, they left the bore absolutely shot out, AND corroded out as well(I should have photographed it prior to it "real" rebuild). Oh well, I relieved it from some guy for only $375 shipped, and it gave me the opportunity to have it rebuilt into a six inch barreled shooter. Actually, the rebarreled action was done at High Clarks' and it will be arriving in several days.

JuergenG · 06-28-2002, 09:03 AM

Bud,
I'm not so sure that your gun left from Suhl in the condition you describe.
All East German reworks I've seen so far were in very good condition. Besides being reblued most all had been re-barreled. Folks here love them as shooters as they represent the lower edge of the price range.
Juergen

06-17-2002, 08:18 PM	#1
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 239 Times in 111 Posts	East German Reworks Colleagues, FYI, www.brocksguns.com (scroll down to East German Lugers). Prices and descriptions suggest that these are being offered not so much as shooters but more as collector guns. Are East German reworks such as these going to eventually acquire the status of collector pieces like Weimar reworks? Are these prices warrented? Several of these guns interest me, they just seem a few hundred too high. What markings (such as E. German sunburst) would be desirable to the future collector? In other words, how do you prove it's an E. German rework and not just a mismatched gun with renumbered parts and a cheap re-blue? [img]confused.gif[/img] KFS

06-18-2002, 11:02 PM	#3
TheRomanhistorian User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 301 Thanks: 170 Thanked 88 Times in 64 Posts	I think eventually all Lugers (pre-Stoeger/AIMCO/Mitchell of course) will be 'collectors' items,in the sense we are familiar with, one day. But the East German reworks just didn't seem all that exciting to me honestly. I felt they were more like shooters than collectables. That said I would not mind adding a few of them to my current P-08 collection (Which consists right now of 1 shooter.) But those prices are kind of steep and since they haven't sold yet I'm guessing they're not quite 'collectable' yet? Anyway, I think I had a point in there but I may have lost it. This summer vacation thing is destroying my brain, must get back to school and homework! [img]smile.gif[/img] Michael Ng __________________ Michael Nos morituri te salutant - Supposed saying of the gladiators to the emperor ('We, who are about to die, salute you.') 'We are the lantern bearers, my friend; for us to keep something burning, to carry what light we can forward into the darkness and the wind' - From Rosemary Sutcliff's The Lantern Bearers

06-21-2002, 04:49 PM	#6
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	I got a nice First Variation K date as Mark was nice enough to include me in "first pickins" These are dipped reblued already! I am restoring mine just for my collection. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

06-21-2002, 04:51 PM	#7
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	MarkC, Why would you take a matching Luger and then have the original finish taken off? Or, as I understand Thor, is the finish not original? __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

06-21-2002, 09:26 PM	#8
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Mine was not the original finish and as you can see they not only dipped blued (cold blue) the gun but the small parts as well. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

06-17-2002, 09:43 PM	#2
Skookum User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I studied the discriptions of these pieces very carefully when they first became available from Brocks and came to the conclusion that they are richly valued by the seller. I believe that given the number of pieces left unsold, that conclusion has been born out by the fact that there have been few takers at current prices.

06-21-2002, 12:32 PM	#4
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	It's my opinion that the East German re-works being offered at this time are terribly over-priced. There's a gun store near me with two that are priced at $600 each and I saw a Shotgun News ad for them recently at $799!!! In contrast, an all-matching 1918 DWM in excellent condition with holster and tool went for $750 at auction here last weekend. I've owned several E. German re-works and presently own two. One is a complete mismatch and is my shooter. The other is a 1917 Erfurt with all matching numbers except for the side plate. The grips and grip screws are also replacements. The two matching numbered mags are not original to the gun but it's pretty representative of the E. German pistols. Again, in my opinion, the East German re-works will eventually become collector pieces in their own right. They'll never command the prices brought by original matching guns but their value will increase. After all, they are as much a part of Luger history as the post-WW1 re-works that seem to have a following today.

06-21-2002, 04:28 PM	#5
MarkC User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 478 Thanks: 1 Thanked 109 Times in 26 Posts	I was lucky and got a copy of the list before it became posted on their website and had first pick. I paid about a grand for an all matching 2nd variation K date that Thor is doing over for me. Also got a real nice matching, 41/42 date from them as well. I sent the "black widow" back when I saw it had a commercially proofed barrel. Overall the good stuff went first and now the junk is left.

06-22-2002, 06:36 AM	#9
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	When I was in Florida last year on assignment, I found a nice E. German "K" Date for $650. It was all matching, except for the barrel which was a new E. German made and proofed one. Overall, the pistol is in excellent condition and the bluing is not the dip blue, but a decent hot salt blue. I talked with Ted about having it restored, but decided that MAYBE, these may be a collectible in thier own right one of these days and decided not to do anything to it. I feel they are a distinct variation since the work was done by a Government authority. This rework is similar to the statement in a thread above about the Weimar Era reworks being a variation. The E/ German reworks will probably never have the value of an original of course, but they are still neat pistols. Marvin

06-22-2002, 12:49 PM	#10
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	One thing to look for on E. German reworked Lugers is a barrel/chamber reline sleeve. Without exception, the dozen or so E. German reworks I've examined have had a relined barrel that included about 1/2 of the chamber. A close look into the chamber will show the line where the liner meets the remaining original barrel chamber. A close look at the muzzle will also show the concentric circle where the liner meets the barrel. The work on all I've seen has been well done and easy to miss unless you're looking for it. I clearly won't claim that ALL E. German reworked pistols will have the liner but the ones I've had in hand have had them. Some of the barrels will undoubtedly be completely original and some will have new barrels but relining seems to have been common practice.

06-25-2002, 04:16 AM	#11
Bud User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Oh yeah, those Eastern arsenals sure did a "good" job reworking my 1937 luger. What with all those new and shiny parts put on it, likely from some master armorors's kit or such. And after all the rebuilding process, they left the bore absolutely shot out, AND corroded out as well(I should have photographed it prior to it "real" rebuild). Oh well, I relieved it from some guy for only $375 shipped, and it gave me the opportunity to have it rebuilt into a six inch barreled shooter. Actually, the rebarreled action was done at High Clarks' and it will be arriving in several days.

06-28-2002, 09:03 AM	#12
JuergenG User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 154 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Bud, I'm not so sure that your gun left from Suhl in the condition you describe. All East German reworks I've seen so far were in very good condition. Besides being reblued most all had been re-barreled. Folks here love them as shooters as they represent the lower edge of the price range. Juergen