Serial Number Overstrike - with Picture

Luke · 07-05-2002, 07:39 AM

Just bought a 1911 DWM which seems TOTALLY authentic in every way, but one of the digits in the barrel SN is a clear overstrike. See pic below.

From the picture it is clear that the Ã¢??8Ã¢?Â was an overstrike, although it is difficult to determine what the underlying digit could be.

I have examined this Luger in great detail, and I am convinced that this overstrike was the result of an error during the original manufacturing process and not an attempt to renumber a replacement barrel.

1. The gun appears TOTALLY authentic and unaltered in any way.
2. I have taken this gun into the sun and looked at the bluing on the barrel, receiver, and frame. It is impossible to see any differences in color or consistency.
3. The barrel has the normal amount of honest wear on the left and right side of the muzzle consistent with the remainder of the gun.
4. The barrel/receiver alignment mark is extremely precise, even under very high (1200 dpi) magnification.
5. The entire serial number seems to have the expected frosting appropriate to the age of the Luger.
6. The fonts or characters used in the barrel serial number, including the Ã¢??8,Ã¢?Â appear to be identical, under high magnification, to those used on the remainder of the gun.

Has anyone else ever seen such an overstrike on an honest Luger?

Johnny Peppers · 07-05-2002, 10:31 AM

Luke,
While not the same type of overstrike, I have a friend with a beautiful Mauser Banner with an overstrike on the sideplate. A 6 was first struck with the six turned 90 degrees or laying down. The six was then struck again with the six in the proper orientation with no attempt to remove any of the original mis-strike.

Navy · 07-05-2002, 10:56 AM

Hi Luke,

I have seen maybe 3 similar overstrikes over the past too many years. My theory is that someone got careless with the numbering sequence, spotted the error, corrected it and some how snuck the piece past the inspectors.

Certainly DWM would not knowingly let a piece go with such a defect.

Tom <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Luke · 07-05-2002, 11:10 AM

Tom,

To the unaided eye the overstrike is not obvious. It got past me until I micro-photographed all of the markings on the Luger, as I always do with every new purchase. In the photograph or with a 10X loupe it is easy to see, but with the naked eye it looks okay.

This gun came from one of the most scrupulously honest dealers I know, and I am sure he didn't see it either.

Luke

Kyrie · 07-05-2002, 11:29 AM

Hi Luke!

Serial number double and/or over strikes are not uncommon. For my own convenience I divide them into three categories:

1) Double strikes produced by die rebound,

2) Numbering mistakes corrected by overstrikes, and

3) Strike errors left uncorrected.

IÃ¢??ve uploaded a photo montage That shows, from top to bottom, a double strike serial number on a 1916 Erfurt Luger, an over strike on a Mauser Model 1914 (apparently from a Ã¢??2Ã¢?Â to a Ã¢??5Ã¢?Â), a double strike serial number on the barrel of an ac 42 P.38, and an uncorrected error in the serial number suffix on a byf 43 P.38.

Double strikes due to die bounce are actually fairly common, but most require examination under magnification to catch as the die movement between strikes is very small. Looking at yours, I cannot tell if it is a double strike, an over strike, or something else.

Warm regards,

Kyrie
(URL edited by JS to provide display with post)

Aaron · 07-05-2002, 01:47 PM

My guess is that it was accidentally struck with the "9" or "3" die, then corrected with the "8" die.

Jan C Still · 07-05-2002, 02:12 PM

Luke
Double strikes are rare but they do occurre. See page 31 Third Reich Lugers or page 11 Axis Pistols for an overstrike of the S/42 on G date sn 200e. I used to own a K date with a partial overstamp of the serial number on the side plate. In my experiense, the inspectors did not throw out parts for small mistakes such as these.
Jan

Brandon · 07-05-2002, 02:21 PM

Jan,
I own "Third Reich Lugers" and "Imperial Lugers" (Havent got aroud to getting "Wiemar and Early Nazi Lugers") and I must say they are great books! Very informative and really helpful to a newbie like myself!

Brandon Metcalf

Luke · 07-05-2002, 08:15 PM

T H A N K Y O U. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

This is what I love about the Luger Forum. Where else could you go and have several experienced experts comment on a questionable Luger item?

I really appreciate this forum, and I am grateful for your help.

Luke

07-05-2002, 07:39 AM	#1
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Serial Number Overstrike - with Picture Just bought a 1911 DWM which seems TOTALLY authentic in every way, but one of the digits in the barrel SN is a clear overstrike. See pic below. From the picture it is clear that the Ã¢??8Ã¢?Â was an overstrike, although it is difficult to determine what the underlying digit could be. I have examined this Luger in great detail, and I am convinced that this overstrike was the result of an error during the original manufacturing process and not an attempt to renumber a replacement barrel. 1. The gun appears TOTALLY authentic and unaltered in any way. 2. I have taken this gun into the sun and looked at the bluing on the barrel, receiver, and frame. It is impossible to see any differences in color or consistency. 3. The barrel has the normal amount of honest wear on the left and right side of the muzzle consistent with the remainder of the gun. 4. The barrel/receiver alignment mark is extremely precise, even under very high (1200 dpi) magnification. 5. The entire serial number seems to have the expected frosting appropriate to the age of the Luger. 6. The fonts or characters used in the barrel serial number, including the Ã¢??8,Ã¢?Â appear to be identical, under high magnification, to those used on the remainder of the gun. Has anyone else ever seen such an overstrike on an honest Luger? __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

07-05-2002, 11:10 AM	#4
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Tom, To the unaided eye the overstrike is not obvious. It got past me until I micro-photographed all of the markings on the Luger, as I always do with every new purchase. In the photograph or with a 10X loupe it is easy to see, but with the naked eye it looks okay. This gun came from one of the most scrupulously honest dealers I know, and I am sure he didn't see it either. Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

07-05-2002, 08:15 PM	#9
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	T H A N K Y O U. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> This is what I love about the Luger Forum. Where else could you go and have several experienced experts comment on a questionable Luger item? I really appreciate this forum, and I am grateful for your help. Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

07-05-2002, 10:31 AM	#2
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Luke, While not the same type of overstrike, I have a friend with a beautiful Mauser Banner with an overstrike on the sideplate. A 6 was first struck with the six turned 90 degrees or laying down. The six was then struck again with the six in the proper orientation with no attempt to remove any of the original mis-strike.

07-05-2002, 10:56 AM	#3
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Hi Luke, I have seen maybe 3 similar overstrikes over the past too many years. My theory is that someone got careless with the numbering sequence, spotted the error, corrected it and some how snuck the piece past the inspectors. Certainly DWM would not knowingly let a piece go with such a defect. Tom <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

07-05-2002, 11:29 AM	#5
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Hi Luke! Serial number double and/or over strikes are not uncommon. For my own convenience I divide them into three categories: 1) Double strikes produced by die rebound, 2) Numbering mistakes corrected by overstrikes, and 3) Strike errors left uncorrected. IÃ¢??ve uploaded a photo montage That shows, from top to bottom, a double strike serial number on a 1916 Erfurt Luger, an over strike on a Mauser Model 1914 (apparently from a Ã¢??2Ã¢?Â to a Ã¢??5Ã¢?Â), a double strike serial number on the barrel of an ac 42 P.38, and an uncorrected error in the serial number suffix on a byf 43 P.38. Double strikes due to die bounce are actually fairly common, but most require examination under magnification to catch as the die movement between strikes is very small. Looking at yours, I cannot tell if it is a double strike, an over strike, or something else. Warm regards, Kyrie (URL edited by JS to provide display with post)

07-05-2002, 01:47 PM	#6
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	My guess is that it was accidentally struck with the "9" or "3" die, then corrected with the "8" die.

07-05-2002, 02:12 PM	#7
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	Luke Double strikes are rare but they do occurre. See page 31 Third Reich Lugers or page 11 Axis Pistols for an overstrike of the S/42 on G date sn 200e. I used to own a K date with a partial overstamp of the serial number on the side plate. In my experiense, the inspectors did not throw out parts for small mistakes such as these. Jan

07-05-2002, 02:21 PM	#8
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Jan, I own "Third Reich Lugers" and "Imperial Lugers" (Havent got aroud to getting "Wiemar and Early Nazi Lugers") and I must say they are great books! Very informative and really helpful to a newbie like myself! Brandon Metcalf