Grip fonts

Mike B · 09-12-2009, 05:22 PM

Greetings fellow members,
Anyone out in Luger land have any knowledge about whether or not there is a standardization concerning font sizes on grips? I have several Lugers that I feel very comfortable in saying their lineage is without question, but the font sizes are very different. My 1910 DWM for instance has very small numbers, but my BYF 41 has much larger numbers. Both Lugers are war trophies that I acquired directly from the GI who captured them, so I feel it is reasonable to assume the numbers on the grips are not home brewed. Before a conclusion is drawn concerning DWM and Mauser being different, I also have a 1914 DWM with large numbers much like the BYF.
Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Mike

Ron Wood · 09-12-2009, 06:40 PM

The grip strap markings were applied by unit armorers with whatever die fonts they were issued or obtained. It is actually remarkable that there was any uniformity at all in individual markings across the span of thirty or more years. There were regulations dictating the size, style and placement of unit marks, but you make do with what you have to work with (and not every armorer was literate enough to understand published directives). The Weimar era marking goes all wonky, and early Nazi stuff isn't much better. I find that Imperial era stuff shows much more consistentcy, but that is just me

.

sheepherder · 09-12-2009, 06:42 PM

Are these the steel stamps used for "unit markings"???

I don't have any knowledge of a Reichsministerium regulation on size & font...I'd just like to know how they stamp a curved surface and get uniform depth and definition on the stamped letters...

It's pretty much impossible to find "curved" stamps even in this day & age...Where did the Germans get theirs??? Each machine shop/toolmaker make their own???

Mike B · 09-12-2009, 06:43 PM

Ron,
I should have been a bit more clear. I was referring to the number size on the wood.

Mike

Ron Wood · 09-12-2009, 07:03 PM

Oh... as Emily Latella (Gilda Radner) used to say on Rowan and Martin's "Laugh In", "that is very different...nevermind".

Mike B · 09-12-2009, 08:51 PM

Well, that's an interesting answer; LOL. Is there an answer to the different size numbers?

Mike

Mauser George · 09-12-2009, 09:06 PM

Postino, it's still done today as it is refered to as roll stamping.

Regards,

George

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

Are these the steel stamps used for "unit markings"???

I don't have any knowledge of a Reichsministerium regulation on size & font...I'd just like to know how they stamp a curved surface and get uniform depth and definition on the stamped letters...

It's pretty much impossible to find "curved" stamps even in this day & age...Where did the Germans get theirs??? Each machine shop/toolmaker make their own???

sheepherder · 09-12-2009, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauser George

Postino, it's still done today as it is refered to as roll stamping.

Regards,

George

George - So you're saying that every Regimental Armorer had a hydraulic press and rotary stamps available, plus the necessary fixtures to hold the Luger grip frame in place???

I find that hard to believe...

Of course, I've seen stranger things...

George Anderson · 09-12-2009, 09:33 PM

Mike, late Mauser grip plate numbering is usually quite large. The early guns seem to have had the numbers stamped using the same small dies as the frames were marked with.

John Sabato · 09-12-2009, 09:55 PM

My personal feeling on this Mike is that there may be some uniformity in grips produced at exactly the same period in the same manufacturer, but not across the spectrum of manufacturers and suppliers. Let me emphasize that this is my instinct on the question based on observations. I do not have a published reference to support this opinion.

Lugerdoc · 09-13-2009, 11:31 AM

Mike, Here are a few general observations: DWM & early Mauser military PO8 grips are stamped with the last 2 digits of the serial using 3mm high dies. DWM commericals after WW1 and some early Mauser militaries & commericahls, will have unnumbered grips. Erfurt & Simson grips are thicker and will be proofed inside in addition to the small digits. Later Mauser WW2 era grips will most often be numbered with a much larger die set. Sometimes only one side is numbered and the other side will have an inspector's WaA. There's a much greater variation of grip numbering on these WW2 grips. TH

09-12-2009, 05:22 PM	#1
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	Grip fonts Greetings fellow members, Anyone out in Luger land have any knowledge about whether or not there is a standardization concerning font sizes on grips? I have several Lugers that I feel very comfortable in saying their lineage is without question, but the font sizes are very different. My 1910 DWM for instance has very small numbers, but my BYF 41 has much larger numbers. Both Lugers are war trophies that I acquired directly from the GI who captured them, so I feel it is reasonable to assume the numbers on the grips are not home brewed. Before a conclusion is drawn concerning DWM and Mauser being different, I also have a 1914 DWM with large numbers much like the BYF. Any thoughts? Thanks, Mike

09-12-2009, 06:40 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	The grip strap markings were applied by unit armorers with whatever die fonts they were issued or obtained. It is actually remarkable that there was any uniformity at all in individual markings across the span of thirty or more years. There were regulations dictating the size, style and placement of unit marks, but you make do with what you have to work with (and not every armorer was literate enough to understand published directives). The Weimar era marking goes all wonky, and early Nazi stuff isn't much better. I find that Imperial era stuff shows much more consistentcy, but that is just me. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-12-2009, 07:03 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Oh... as Emily Latella (Gilda Radner) used to say on Rowan and Martin's "Laugh In", "that is very different...nevermind". __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-12-2009, 09:55 PM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,152 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	My personal feeling on this Mike is that there may be some uniformity in grips produced at exactly the same period in the same manufacturer, but not across the spectrum of manufacturers and suppliers. Let me emphasize that this is my instinct on the question based on observations. I do not have a published reference to support this opinion. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-13-2009, 11:31 AM	#11
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Mike, Here are a few general observations: DWM & early Mauser military PO8 grips are stamped with the last 2 digits of the serial using 3mm high dies. DWM commericals after WW1 and some early Mauser militaries & commericahls, will have unnumbered grips. Erfurt & Simson grips are thicker and will be proofed inside in addition to the small digits. Later Mauser WW2 era grips will most often be numbered with a much larger die set. Sometimes only one side is numbered and the other side will have an inspector's WaA. There's a much greater variation of grip numbering on these WW2 grips. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

09-12-2009, 06:42 PM	#3
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	Are these the steel stamps used for "unit markings"??? I don't have any knowledge of a Reichsministerium regulation on size & font...I'd just like to know how they stamp a curved surface and get uniform depth and definition on the stamped letters... It's pretty much impossible to find "curved" stamps even in this day & age...Where did the Germans get theirs??? Each machine shop/toolmaker make their own???

09-12-2009, 06:43 PM	#4
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	Ron, I should have been a bit more clear. I was referring to the number size on the wood. Mike

09-12-2009, 08:51 PM	#6
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	Well, that's an interesting answer; LOL. Is there an answer to the different size numbers? Mike

09-12-2009, 09:33 PM	#9
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Mike, late Mauser grip plate numbering is usually quite large. The early guns seem to have had the numbers stamped using the same small dies as the frames were marked with.