Luger Heavy Barrel Not Cycling

[Blastattack]

So, I got around to re-barelling my Luger, and ran into an issue when test firing my Fiocchi .30 Luger rounds. Hand cycling the gun works perfectly, toggle snaps down and strips, chambers and fires a round without any issue, but the gun will not extract and eject. I believe that the heavy barrel is slowing down the upper assembly, and the bullet (and remaining pressure) has left the barrel before the toggle can be opened by the coupling link. Any idea how to make the old girl cycle?

And a construction pic, just to taunt

[Edward Tinker]

I would guess that its just too heavy for a 30 luger....

There are several guys on here that are very good at this sort of thing and will come on in a bit.

[lugerholsterrepair]

With that large long and heavy barrel you are running into the same problem with .30 Luger that a Luger carbine has..it requires a slightly stronger load to cycle. I am not one of the guy's that are very good at this sort of thing as Ed says..just a wild guess.

[CAP Black]

Caution - caution

When you step up the powder charge try to hold the unit
with both hands. The energy of the explosion goes throughout the gun and your body will be needed to help absorb some of that energy as it runs the cycle of the gun.
Jack

[alanint]

What about cutting a coil or two from the mainspring?

[rhuff]

You might consider reducing the main/recoil spring weight. Wolff springs sells reduced spring weights for the P-08.

Is your extractor attempting to remove the spent brass?

You will most likely have to "play" with different approaches to get you P08 to function correctly. I would be very cautious about trying to reload the 30 Luger brass to a lot higher velocity level than factory. You well have a new strong steel barrel, but have a 90 year old frame and toggle assy.

If you are a reloader, you could produce a small number(say 10) of each powder level, increasing 0.1gr of powder for each group, watching very closely for over pressure.

[mrerick]

When you have to manually extract the cartridge case, do you do this by hand operating the toggle train?

Do you feel any particular resistance early in manually extracting a fired case?

If so, you might have some shape or surface finish issues in the chamber.

If you adjust spring length / tension be sure to use some masking tape at the rear of the frame between the receiver ears where the rear toggle will hit the frame. If recoil resistance gets too light, you could end up peening this area.

[Blastattack]

Originally Posted by rhuff

You might consider reducing the main/recoil spring weight. Wolff springs sells reduced spring weights for the P-08.

Is your extractor attempting to remove the spent brass?

You will most likely have to "play" with different approaches to get you P08 to function correctly. I would be very cautious about trying to reload the 30 Luger brass to a lot higher velocity level than factory. You well have a new strong steel barrel, but have a 90 year old frame and toggle assy.

If you are a reloader, you could produce a small number(say 10) of each powder level, increasing 0.1gr of powder for each group, watching very closely for over pressure.

I have a set of Wolff springs on order. I do so very hope that using the reduced power spring will fix everything, however I realize ammo may need to be changed around. I'm thinking I would start with a heavier bullet before I start increasing the charge. A heavier bullet should keep the same recoil energy needed to unlock the toggle, but should stay in the barrel longer and keep enough pressure to extract, eject and load a fresh round into the chamber. Has anyone played around with 110 gr. bullets?

Originally Posted by mrerick

When you have to manually extract the cartridge case, do you do this by hand operating the toggle train?

Do you feel any particular resistance early in manually extracting a fired case?

If so, you might have some shape or surface finish issues in the chamber.

If you adjust spring length / tension be sure to use some masking tape at the rear of the frame between the receiver ears where the rear toggle will hit the frame. If recoil resistance gets too light, you could end up peening this area.

Yes, currently extraction and ejection has to be done by hand. There is no noticeable resistance encountered, the pistol still extracts the case about 1/8", but doesn't have the pressure to open the toggle completely. However, receiver cycles far enough back to recock the striker, and I can "fire" the gun on the already fired case. Chamber is cut perfectly clean, and done so with a brand new reamer, so no surface finish issues there.

As to the peening issue, are you referring to the tab/protrusion at the very back of the rear toggle, which stops the upward rotation of the rear toggle, or are you talking about the surface at the back of the pocket inside the frame, just above the lanyard loop?

[mrerick]

The very back of the rear toggle which stops the upward rotation of the rear toggle...

This will hit the frame rear just above the lanyard loop. Put the tape on the frame.

Marc

[lugercollector]

Was the it in 9mm originally?...if so,it needs a weaker mainspring...

[Blastattack]

Originally Posted by lugercollector

Was the it in 9mm originally?...if so,it needs a weaker mainspring...

Yes, she was originally in 9mm. Hopefully the reduced power spring makes her work well.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Peter..good point!

[John Sabato]

Originally Posted by Blastattack

... and ran into an issue when test firing my Fiocchi .30 Luger rounds.

Fiocchi .30 Luger ammo is known to be underpowered... See if you can find a different brand of ammo, or start reloading...

[Blastattack]

Originally Posted by John Sabato

Fiocchi .30 Luger ammo is known to be underpowered... See if you can find a different brand of ammo, or start reloading...

Interesting. Who else makes ammo? Though underpowered, I can get Fiocchi for about $30 a box here. Can't say I've ever seen any other brands available.

Speaking of reloading, has anyone used 110gr. .30 Carbine bullets for .30 Luger? I can get 1000 Frontier CMJ Plated bullets for $84 + shipping. Everything else seems to be about double the price. And keep in mind, I live in Canada. I do not have the access to some of the amazing deals that american members have access to.

[rhuff]

I have a fair supply of 110gr JSP bullets for my carbines, and have though many times about trying to develop 30 Luger loads with them, but, to date, have not done it. I fear that 110gr may just be a bit heavy for the Luger toggle system, but do not know for sure. I have looked and looked for any info on loading this bullet, but have come up empty.

I can look up the muzzle velocities of Fiocchi 30 Luger ammo, if you are unable to do so. I have some Western Super X 30 Luger ammo that is produced by Winchester. It is listed at 1220 ft/sec muzzle velocity and muzzle energy @ 305 ft. lbs. I believe that Fiocchi in in that neighborhood energy wise.


How does your barrel and receiver/barrel extension compare weight wise, to say an arty Luger?? They function o.k. with Fiocchi 93gr ammo.

[Kitkat041836]

The 1902 Luger Carbine has a foward assist spring in it's
forarm to help it go back into the battery poision and it has
a hotter load to recikle it,it also has a stock to take up the recoil. Food for thought.
Thanks,George

[alanint]

Then machine some compensator slots in that sight ring which will shoot jets of gas back at a 45 degree angle for an additional rocket boost!

[Kitkat041836]

I think the compensator slots are a great Idea.
Thanks,George

[Blastattack]

Originally Posted by rhuff

I have a fair supply of 110gr JSP bullets for my carbines, and have though many times about trying to develop 30 Luger loads with them, but, to date, have not done it. I fear that 110gr may just be a bit heavy for the Luger toggle system, but do not know for sure. I have looked and looked for any info on loading this bullet, but have come up empty.

I can look up the muzzle velocities of Fiocchi 30 Luger ammo, if you are unable to do so. I have some Western Super X 30 Luger ammo that is produced by Winchester. It is listed at 1220 ft/sec muzzle velocity and muzzle energy @ 305 ft. lbs. I believe that Fiocchi in in that neighborhood energy wise.


How does your barrel and receiver/barrel extension compare weight wise, to say an arty Luger?? They function o.k. with Fiocchi 93gr ammo.

I haven't seen any load info for 110gr. bullets either. I've found a number of listings from various sources for 100gr. bullets, however. It would certainly make things a fair bit cheaper for reloading.

Fiocchi lists it's ammo pretty well the same as Winchester; 1190 fps and 290 ft/lbs of energy.

I can't imagine it's any heavier that an artillery barrel. Below I've posted a blueprint for anyone interested.

[Blastattack]

Originally Posted by alanint

Then machine some compensator slots in that sight ring which will shoot jets of gas back at a 45 degree angle for an additional rocket boost!

Originally Posted by Kitkat041836

I think the compensator slots are a great Idea.
Thanks,George

We'll try a lighter spring and different ammo before I go that far