Question about LP-08 hold-open

Weasel505 · 08-17-2009, 08:39 PM

Hi,

This past weekend I examined an LP-08 that I am considering buying. Looked near perfect (well, pretty good), all matching, except when I opened it up, I noticed that the hold-open device was not numbered.

Quick question: should the hold-open device have been numbered? I didn't pull it out of the gun so I don't know if it has a hidden number. Specifically, if the hold-open is not numbered, does that mean it is a replacement part?

It's a DWM 1918. Pretty good shape. They want $2k. Oh hell, it's probably sold by now.

Thanks for any help.

Weasel (Bob K.)

Mauser George · 08-17-2009, 08:52 PM

Bob:

It should be numbered to the gun. By chance, does it have adjustable front sight?

Regards,

George

Weasel505 · 08-19-2009, 08:46 PM

...but how critical is the hold-open device number? I may have missed it. It does not have the adjustable front site. Called the shop today (8/19) and they still have it. The problem is that the store is about an hour away from me. I can't just run over there and look at it.

ANYBODY: If you had the opportunity to buy an arty luger for $2k with an unmarked hold-open, would you???????????

Why is Luger collecting so nerve-wracking??? This is supposed to be fun!

Thanks.

Bob

FNorm · 08-19-2009, 08:56 PM

I just did. Not the hold open, but it was matching except for the inside number on left grip.
All depends on how bad you want it, and what you can afford. Only you can answer that.

FN

policeluger · 08-19-2009, 09:51 PM

Yes, I would buy it if at 2K it was a deal, regardless of the fact the HO was not numbered.....I would however feel a bit uneasy about a MM numbered one....

Ron Wood · 08-19-2009, 11:13 PM

You know, I may be nuts but I have been collecting for over fifty years and I'll be darned if I will let a mis-matched firing pin, holdopen device, grip or magazine keep me from buying a nice example of a variation. Having a "type' example in good shape adds to the completeness of a collection. I'm not into it for the big bucks but for the sheer excitement of sticking to my collecting goals and hunting down the elusive missing piece. An un-numbered part may make a piece slightly more desirable for some folks, but a mis-matched internal part isn't anything to worry about as far as I am concerned. When I started collecting it was just a thrill to find a nice example of a Luger I didn't have. I have owned a bunch of fun Lugers that were less than perfect but they made me happy. The current trend of tearing a gun apart for a minor discrepancy and declaring it a dirt cheap shooter is silly and has taken the sheer joy of collecting away. Everybody is in it for investment and the money it will eventually bring. Carpe momentum...and have fun.

wlyon · 08-19-2009, 11:38 PM

Ron
Amen. I have been collecting for 50 years also and couldn't agree with you more. I think it's time to get real. As long as we keep demanding perfect lugers the fakers will continue. These firearms were used, in a war even or maybe two wars, therefore expect them to be used. I keep reading where shooters are replacing parts before shooting their collectors. Not sure the German army had that luxury. When I started collecting lugers a 98%+ luger with all matching numbers and 2 matching mags was so rare I really didn't expect to find one. Now they seem to be everywhere . Hmmm. Bill

Ice · 08-20-2009, 08:31 AM

Ron and Wylon,

I have to agree with you both that Lugers are made to be enjoyed. I collect the so called meat and potatoes Lugers because I can't afford the high end models. I do shoot them although I will admit to replacing parts before doing so. For me, Lugers are sleek and elegant like a beautiful woman while additionally being a piece of history that you can hold in your hand. History, fun to shoot and fine accuracy - all in a wickedly elegant package; thats what I like.

Charlie

FNorm · 08-20-2009, 10:28 AM

Well said, Ron, Wylon, and Ice!

FN

ken d · 08-20-2009, 06:00 PM

Bob:

A near perfect LP08, 1918 dated, for 2000.00, is a buy even without a hold open, in my opinion.

Ken D

worldoftone · 09-21-2009, 11:44 AM

Great advice from all here. I can afford the higher-end pieces, but I LOVE to shoot, so I usually won't buy anything that I can't have fun with (or am too scared of messing up). I do respect the rare and oddball pistols and their owners, but I guess I'm just about the fun, not so much the investment. And the "all-matching" Lugers are appearing more and more.

- WO

newluger · 09-21-2009, 12:05 PM

Ron & Wylon, What you say makes a lot of sense. Finding a nice one is the fun of the hunt.

Lugerdoc · 09-22-2009, 03:48 PM

I have to agree that a luger missing one 2 digit part (particularly internal FP, HO, safety, etc) should go for 25% less than an all matching one, with a good chance that you can find the matching part. What number DWM HO do you need? Perhaps we can assist? TH

Ron Wood · 09-22-2009, 06:09 PM

Tom,
I inderstand your take on mismatched parts, but I would really be upset if I had a $2000 Luger and someone insisted that it was only worth $1500 because of a mismatched firing pin. That is just extreme. In my opinion, a Luger in nice original condition should not suffer a devalutation of more than $50 for a mismatched firing pin, holdopen, grips or magazine. These parts are subject to wear, breakage and/or field replacement and are just part of a reasonable history. I am getting increasingly frustrated with "purists" that insist that if a Luger is not 100% as issued, it is a shooter. That flies in the face of honest use and only encourages fakers to "upgrade" honest pieces to "all matching". If it truely is all matching, that is wonderful, but a mismatched internal part doesn't make it junk.

Lugerdoc · 09-23-2009, 09:17 AM

Ron, I agree that many lugers did come back from the wars with replacement parts, even to the extent of a top half from one gun and a lower from another. I doubt that you would want to pay as much for this later example as one that was "as originally issued". So IMHO, one with only one mismatch high breakage part, war trophy, is also not "aoi". It's just a matter of degree, like being a "a little bit pregnant". Either you are or you aren't. Years ago, I sold a 1917 LPO8 with a mismatched trigger, that I had had in my safe for 5 years looking for a match, @$750 when the market for a matching one was $1,000. I thought that this was fair to both me and the buyer. TH

08-17-2009, 08:39 PM	#1
Weasel505 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 46 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Question about LP-08 hold-open Hi, This past weekend I examined an LP-08 that I am considering buying. Looked near perfect (well, pretty good), all matching, except when I opened it up, I noticed that the hold-open device was not numbered. Quick question: should the hold-open device have been numbered? I didn't pull it out of the gun so I don't know if it has a hidden number. Specifically, if the hold-open is not numbered, does that mean it is a replacement part? It's a DWM 1918. Pretty good shape. They want $2k. Oh hell, it's probably sold by now. Thanks for any help. Weasel (Bob K.)

08-19-2009, 08:46 PM	#3
Weasel505 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 46 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	No, no adjustable front sight... ...but how critical is the hold-open device number? I may have missed it. It does not have the adjustable front site. Called the shop today (8/19) and they still have it. The problem is that the store is about an hour away from me. I can't just run over there and look at it. ANYBODY: If you had the opportunity to buy an arty luger for $2k with an unmarked hold-open, would you??????????? Why is Luger collecting so nerve-wracking??? This is supposed to be fun! Thanks. Bob

08-19-2009, 11:13 PM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,987 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,090 Times in 1,675 Posts	You know, I may be nuts but I have been collecting for over fifty years and I'll be darned if I will let a mis-matched firing pin, holdopen device, grip or magazine keep me from buying a nice example of a variation. Having a "type' example in good shape adds to the completeness of a collection. I'm not into it for the big bucks but for the sheer excitement of sticking to my collecting goals and hunting down the elusive missing piece. An un-numbered part may make a piece slightly more desirable for some folks, but a mis-matched internal part isn't anything to worry about as far as I am concerned. When I started collecting it was just a thrill to find a nice example of a Luger I didn't have. I have owned a bunch of fun Lugers that were less than perfect but they made me happy. The current trend of tearing a gun apart for a minor discrepancy and declaring it a dirt cheap shooter is silly and has taken the sheer joy of collecting away. Everybody is in it for investment and the money it will eventually bring. Carpe momentum...and have fun. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction Last edited by Ron Wood; 08-21-2009 at 01:05 PM.

08-19-2009, 11:38 PM	#7
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,615 Thanks: 3,140 Thanked 2,522 Times in 940 Posts	Ron Amen. I have been collecting for 50 years also and couldn't agree with you more. I think it's time to get real. As long as we keep demanding perfect lugers the fakers will continue. These firearms were used, in a war even or maybe two wars, therefore expect them to be used. I keep reading where shooters are replacing parts before shooting their collectors. Not sure the German army had that luxury. When I started collecting lugers a 98%+ luger with all matching numbers and 2 matching mags was so rare I really didn't expect to find one. Now they seem to be everywhere . Hmmm. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

09-22-2009, 03:48 PM	#13
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	I have to agree that a luger missing one 2 digit part (particularly internal FP, HO, safety, etc) should go for 25% less than an all matching one, with a good chance that you can find the matching part. What number DWM HO do you need? Perhaps we can assist? TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

08-17-2009, 08:52 PM	#2
Mauser George User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New York Posts: 88 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Bob: It should be numbered to the gun. By chance, does it have adjustable front sight? Regards, George

08-19-2009, 08:56 PM	#4
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	I just did. Not the hold open, but it was matching except for the inside number on left grip. All depends on how bad you want it, and what you can afford. Only you can answer that. FN

08-19-2009, 09:51 PM	#5
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Yes, I would buy it if at 2K it was a deal, regardless of the fact the HO was not numbered.....I would however feel a bit uneasy about a MM numbered one....

08-20-2009, 08:31 AM	#8
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	Ron and Wylon, I have to agree with you both that Lugers are made to be enjoyed. I collect the so called meat and potatoes Lugers because I can't afford the high end models. I do shoot them although I will admit to replacing parts before doing so. For me, Lugers are sleek and elegant like a beautiful woman while additionally being a piece of history that you can hold in your hand. History, fun to shoot and fine accuracy - all in a wickedly elegant package; thats what I like. Charlie

08-20-2009, 10:28 AM	#9
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Well said, Ron, Wylon, and Ice! FN

08-20-2009, 06:00 PM	#10
ken d Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: louisville ky Posts: 277 Thanks: 31 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	Bob: A near perfect LP08, 1918 dated, for 2000.00, is a buy even without a hold open, in my opinion. Ken D

09-21-2009, 11:44 AM	#11
worldoftone User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 81 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Great advice from all here. I can afford the higher-end pieces, but I LOVE to shoot, so I usually won't buy anything that I can't have fun with (or am too scared of messing up). I do respect the rare and oddball pistols and their owners, but I guess I'm just about the fun, not so much the investment. And the "all-matching" Lugers are appearing more and more. - WO

09-21-2009, 12:05 PM	#12
newluger User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Franklin Tennessee Posts: 119 Thanks: 22 Thanked 10 Times in 7 Posts	Ron & Wylon, What you say makes a lot of sense. Finding a nice one is the fun of the hunt.

09-22-2009, 06:09 PM	#14
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,987 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,090 Times in 1,675 Posts	Tom, I inderstand your take on mismatched parts, but I would really be upset if I had a $2000 Luger and someone insisted that it was only worth $1500 because of a mismatched firing pin. That is just extreme. In my opinion, a Luger in nice original condition should not suffer a devalutation of more than $50 for a mismatched firing pin, holdopen, grips or magazine. These parts are subject to wear, breakage and/or field replacement and are just part of a reasonable history. I am getting increasingly frustrated with "purists" that insist that if a Luger is not 100% as issued, it is a shooter. That flies in the face of honest use and only encourages fakers to "upgrade" honest pieces to "all matching". If it truely is all matching, that is wonderful, but a mismatched internal part doesn't make it junk. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-23-2009, 09:17 AM	#15
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Ron, I agree that many lugers did come back from the wars with replacement parts, even to the extent of a top half from one gun and a lower from another. I doubt that you would want to pay as much for this later example as one that was "as originally issued". So IMHO, one with only one mismatch high breakage part, war trophy, is also not "aoi". It's just a matter of degree, like being a "a little bit pregnant". Either you are or you aren't. Years ago, I sold a 1917 LPO8 with a mismatched trigger, that I had had in my safe for 5 years looking for a match, @$750 when the market for a matching one was $1,000. I thought that this was fair to both me and the buyer. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net