Siamese Luger

Daniel · 03-27-2007, 08:24 PM

Siamese Artillery on Gun Broker, any comments?

pipeman45 · 03-27-2007, 09:19 PM

Not original, but could be a nice shooter.

Pete Ebbink · 03-27-2007, 09:54 PM

This one ???

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=68888405

Daniel · 03-28-2007, 02:34 AM

Pete, ....yep that's it.

Pipeman45, why not original ? Looks OK to me.....

pipeman45 · 03-28-2007, 01:24 PM

His words from the add:

This Artie has had the barrel changed out as most have.Most numbers match,9mm bore in good shape,grips show wear,no serious pitting,adjustable front and rear sights, wood base mag of same vintage.

And I agree, it looks good.

Big Norm · 03-28-2007, 05:32 PM

Siamese artilleries do not have adjustible front and rear sights. See 'Third Reich Lugers' by Jan Stills, pg 189 thru 191-3. I would have to see more pictures before I could say if any of the rest of the gun is authentic. Proper vintage mag?? What does he really mean by that?? Be careful people.
Big Norm

Lugerdoc · 03-29-2007, 09:53 AM

Sounds like a case of someone trying to boost the price of a formerly 4" Siamese. TH

Ron Smith · 03-29-2007, 10:01 AM

Note the high bidder "Klinka". Is he an active member of the forums? It seems that everytime an auction offering is discussed. He bids on it.

George Anderson · 03-29-2007, 10:50 AM

I think that the pistol might very well be legit. At least one known Siamese LP08 is a WWI dated DWM artillery. That example not only has the Thai markings above the lanyard loop but also the "Odin International" import marks beneath the trigger guard.

Sieger · 03-29-2007, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by George Anderson
I think that the pistol might very well be legit. At least one known Siamese LP08 is a WWI dated DWM artillery. That example not only has the Thai markings above the lanyard loop but also the "Odin International" import marks beneath the trigger guard.

I think I saw this pistol at the Alexandria Va. home of Odin in 1983 or so. Of course, that fact wouldn't make it any more original.

Sieger

Daniel · 03-30-2007, 11:26 AM

Thanks to all for your input.
Lugerdoc, if it was formally a 4 inch luger wouldn't have a V notch rear sight ??

Daniel · 03-30-2007, 09:06 PM

Just checked on the Siamese Artillery,seller has added new pics and letter from Sam Costanzo (can't quite make it all out).....this luger is starting to look a little more interesting...

Daniel · 03-31-2007, 09:19 AM

Asked the seller to try to make the letter more clear and I see he has typed a copy to the listing.
Looks like the " REAL DEAL ", whatta ya think ? I might submit a bid.

Big Norm · 04-01-2007, 12:43 AM

Jan Stills lists all serial numbers as having a small cap suffiz of 'v'. If George says that there is one known 1917 LP08, I will not challenge that. In John Walters book 'The Luger Book' pg 246, he states that these were old DWM parts transferred to Orberndorf in 1930. What he means by parts (finished or unfinished), I don't know. All of Jans pictures show a dated 1936 or 1937 on the chamber. This seller expects big money for his gun and so I think that he shouldn't be so chinsy with pictures. I want to see pictures of the chamber date and the middle toggle. Sam mentions that this is a 1917. The barrel has been obviously changed (different serial numbers). Stills says that all Siamese Lugers came out of Mauser. So there should be a Mauser banner on the middle toggle. I don't know what ALL the marks mean on the back of the gun, but they are different from the marks on the rear of my gun. George might very well be right, but my own feeling are, when in doubt... I pass. Too many questions here.
Big Norm

Big Norm · 04-01-2007, 12:53 AM

I would also like to add the in Walters above mentioned book there is a picture of the marks on the rear on an artillery (serial number 3544v). I have serial number '3540v' and my marks correspond to the picture in Walters book.
Big Norm

Big Norm · 04-01-2007, 06:36 PM

Ok gentlemen, my final bit of preaching on this gun. I believe it is a mismatched shooter and the seller is misrepresenting the gun. But the gun is currently on the board at $1032. What do mismatched shooters go for nowa days? At this price, I might even take a shot at it. If I get it, I promise that in spite of the fact that there is a "MOO" on its back, I will not shoot any cows.

Big Norm

03-27-2007, 08:24 PM	#1
Daniel User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ct. and Ma. Posts: 152 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Siamese Luger Siamese Artillery on Gun Broker, any comments?

03-27-2007, 09:19 PM	#2
pipeman45 User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kentucky Posts: 539 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Not original, but could be a nice shooter. __________________ Dave

03-28-2007, 01:24 PM	#5
pipeman45 User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kentucky Posts: 539 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	His words from the add: This Artie has had the barrel changed out as most have.Most numbers match,9mm bore in good shape,grips show wear,no serious pitting,adjustable front and rear sights, wood base mag of same vintage. And I agree, it looks good. __________________ Dave

03-29-2007, 09:53 AM	#7
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Sounds like a case of someone trying to boost the price of a formerly 4" Siamese. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

03-29-2007, 10:01 AM	#8
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Note the high bidder "Klinka". Is he an active member of the forums? It seems that everytime an auction offering is discussed. He bids on it. __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

03-27-2007, 09:54 PM	#3
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	This one ??? http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=68888405

03-28-2007, 02:34 AM	#4
Daniel User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ct. and Ma. Posts: 152 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Pete, ....yep that's it. Pipeman45, why not original ? Looks OK to me.....

03-28-2007, 05:32 PM	#6
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Siamese artilleries do not have adjustible front and rear sights. See 'Third Reich Lugers' by Jan Stills, pg 189 thru 191-3. I would have to see more pictures before I could say if any of the rest of the gun is authentic. Proper vintage mag?? What does he really mean by that?? Be careful people. Big Norm

03-29-2007, 10:50 AM	#9
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,772 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	I think that the pistol might very well be legit. At least one known Siamese LP08 is a WWI dated DWM artillery. That example not only has the Thai markings above the lanyard loop but also the "Odin International" import marks beneath the trigger guard.

03-30-2007, 11:26 AM	#11
Daniel User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ct. and Ma. Posts: 152 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks to all for your input. Lugerdoc, if it was formally a 4 inch luger wouldn't have a V notch rear sight ??

03-30-2007, 09:06 PM	#12
Daniel User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ct. and Ma. Posts: 152 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Just checked on the Siamese Artillery,seller has added new pics and letter from Sam Costanzo (can't quite make it all out).....this luger is starting to look a little more interesting...

03-31-2007, 09:19 AM	#13
Daniel User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ct. and Ma. Posts: 152 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Asked the seller to try to make the letter more clear and I see he has typed a copy to the listing. Looks like the " REAL DEAL ", whatta ya think ? I might submit a bid.

04-01-2007, 12:43 AM	#14
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Jan Stills lists all serial numbers as having a small cap suffiz of 'v'. If George says that there is one known 1917 LP08, I will not challenge that. In John Walters book 'The Luger Book' pg 246, he states that these were old DWM parts transferred to Orberndorf in 1930. What he means by parts (finished or unfinished), I don't know. All of Jans pictures show a dated 1936 or 1937 on the chamber. This seller expects big money for his gun and so I think that he shouldn't be so chinsy with pictures. I want to see pictures of the chamber date and the middle toggle. Sam mentions that this is a 1917. The barrel has been obviously changed (different serial numbers). Stills says that all Siamese Lugers came out of Mauser. So there should be a Mauser banner on the middle toggle. I don't know what ALL the marks mean on the back of the gun, but they are different from the marks on the rear of my gun. George might very well be right, but my own feeling are, when in doubt... I pass. Too many questions here. Big Norm

04-01-2007, 12:53 AM	#15
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	I would also like to add the in Walters above mentioned book there is a picture of the marks on the rear on an artillery (serial number 3544v). I have serial number '3540v' and my marks correspond to the picture in Walters book. Big Norm

04-01-2007, 06:36 PM	#16
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Ok gentlemen, my final bit of preaching on this gun. I believe it is a mismatched shooter and the seller is misrepresenting the gun. But the gun is currently on the board at $1032. What do mismatched shooters go for nowa days? At this price, I might even take a shot at it. If I get it, I promise that in spite of the fact that there is a "MOO" on its back, I will not shoot any cows. Big Norm