1912 Erfurt

burnoutbound · 03-22-2004, 04:53 PM

I would be grateful if someone could provide some information on the following P-08, Serial number 35XX.

This is an Erfurt model of 1912 also stamped with factory refurbish date of 1920. Front grip strap is stamped B.1.R.4.3.H./A.R.3.16 with the preceding marked through with a single line. Rear of receiver stamped S. 16. also with strike through. The bottom of the trigger guard appears to have a script letter W. The right side of the receiver, just behind the barrel, has what appears to be the letters CAR each with a crown above and followed by the Imperial eagle to the right and above that eagle another but different eagle mark over what appears to be su4.
The ERFURT stamp under a crown is also stamped on the top of the toggle action. All numbers match with the exception of the side plate and magazine.

Thank you for any information you may provide.

George Anderson · 03-22-2004, 09:52 PM

Burnoutbound, you have a cool pistol. It was manufactured and probably issued in 1912. Based on my limited knowledge of unit markings, it was first issued to a Bavarian unit, possibly the 1st Infantry Regiment and later saw service after WWI with Weimar Army or Reichswehr. The latter service seems to have been with an Artillery unit. The real puzzel for me is the "H" in the first unit marking; it could be reference to a howitzer unit in some method unique to the Bavarians...I just don't know and have none of my reference material at hand. Good gun, hang on to it.

Dwight Gruber · 03-22-2004, 10:33 PM

Burnoutbound,

I agree with George that you have a -very- cool pistol!

1920 is not a refurbish date. It is a property mark stamped on the gun to identify it as belonging to the government. There are ways to tell whether or not your Luger has been reworked, but presence of the 1920 property mark is not one.

When reporting a unit mark, it is very important to be perfectly accurate--letter size, number size, where the periods are, and whether the letters are Roman or script, all have a bearing on the interpretation. In the case of the unit mark on you Luger, it is crucial to know the size of the numbers and exactly which characters are struck out. Also, is the character before the slash really H., or might it be 11.(or II.)?

Weimar unit marks very often have a letter or number before a slash. GÃ?Â¶rtz & Bryans "German Small Arms Markings" has no H./ entry, but does have a couple of 11./ entries. It is not clear in the typeset or the context if this is an eleven or a Roman numeral II.

Close examination of the marks and reporting of the marks with the foregoing in mind will make it much easier to interpret the unit marks. A photograph would be even better. For that matter photos are always great in any case, we all--well, I, for certain--would really like to see your Luger.

--Dwight

burnoutbound · 03-25-2004, 05:23 PM

George and Dwight,
Thank you for your responses. The information you provided will add to my enjoyment of this arm. I will try and get some digital photos ready to post.

03-22-2004, 04:53 PM	#1
burnoutbound New User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Redding, CA Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1912 Erfurt I would be grateful if someone could provide some information on the following P-08, Serial number 35XX. This is an Erfurt model of 1912 also stamped with factory refurbish date of 1920. Front grip strap is stamped B.1.R.4.3.H./A.R.3.16 with the preceding marked through with a single line. Rear of receiver stamped S. 16. also with strike through. The bottom of the trigger guard appears to have a script letter W. The right side of the receiver, just behind the barrel, has what appears to be the letters CAR each with a crown above and followed by the Imperial eagle to the right and above that eagle another but different eagle mark over what appears to be su4. The ERFURT stamp under a crown is also stamped on the top of the toggle action. All numbers match with the exception of the side plate and magazine. Thank you for any information you may provide.

03-22-2004, 09:52 PM	#2
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	Burnoutbound, you have a cool pistol. It was manufactured and probably issued in 1912. Based on my limited knowledge of unit markings, it was first issued to a Bavarian unit, possibly the 1st Infantry Regiment and later saw service after WWI with Weimar Army or Reichswehr. The latter service seems to have been with an Artillery unit. The real puzzel for me is the "H" in the first unit marking; it could be reference to a howitzer unit in some method unique to the Bavarians...I just don't know and have none of my reference material at hand. Good gun, hang on to it.

03-22-2004, 10:33 PM	#3
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,899 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,300 Times in 429 Posts	Burnoutbound, I agree with George that you have a -very- cool pistol! 1920 is not a refurbish date. It is a property mark stamped on the gun to identify it as belonging to the government. There are ways to tell whether or not your Luger has been reworked, but presence of the 1920 property mark is not one. When reporting a unit mark, it is very important to be perfectly accurate--letter size, number size, where the periods are, and whether the letters are Roman or script, all have a bearing on the interpretation. In the case of the unit mark on you Luger, it is crucial to know the size of the numbers and exactly which characters are struck out. Also, is the character before the slash really H., or might it be 11.(or II.)? Weimar unit marks very often have a letter or number before a slash. GÃ?Â¶rtz & Bryans "German Small Arms Markings" has no H./ entry, but does have a couple of 11./ entries. It is not clear in the typeset or the context if this is an eleven or a Roman numeral II. Close examination of the marks and reporting of the marks with the foregoing in mind will make it much easier to interpret the unit marks. A photograph would be even better. For that matter photos are always great in any case, we all--well, I, for certain--would really like to see your Luger. --Dwight

03-25-2004, 05:23 PM	#4
burnoutbound New User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Redding, CA Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	George and Dwight, Thank you for your responses. The information you provided will add to my enjoyment of this arm. I will try and get some digital photos ready to post.