Broomhandle

CAP Black · 11-27-2014, 03:19 PM

What is a Bolo Broomhandle?

alvin · 11-27-2014, 03:38 PM

It's an English nickname for small grip C96. Commonly referred as "Bolo", or "Bolo Mauser". Most of Bolos are 10-shot with 4" barrel. Small amount of them have 5.5" barrel, and rare variation were 6-shot.

The origin of the nick name is a myth. Saying this type of C96 was Russian Bolshevik political official's favorite in 1920s. So it's called "Bolo". But in today's classification, no matter small grip C96 being made in pre-war era or in 1920s, it's called "Bolo" as long as the grip is small.

Bolo were used extensively in China. One of the best known Bolo was the one in this 13-minute video (with English subtitle):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ze_K-HLUog

sheepherder · 12-04-2014, 10:00 AM

Pic of Bolo from other thread...As Alvin noted, shorter barrel and smaller grip...

The Bolo compared to my 'Red Five' C96 in 7.63 Mauser cal...

DavidJayUden · 12-04-2014, 10:28 AM

A "Red 5"? For real?
dju

Sergio Natali · 12-04-2014, 11:34 AM

Here in Italy "Bolo" broomhandles are not too rare, also because about 345,000.00 of them were made between 1920/1930 but for some reason the average quality is rarely very high, whereas the so called "Red 9" are more scarce as only about 135,000.00 of them were produced, BUT here they get rechambered 9X21 IMI sooooo as usual in these cases the real collectible value "drops" to about USD 2,500.00

Sergio

alvin · 12-04-2014, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luger.parabellum

but for some reason the average quality is rarely very high

Many Bolos appeared in China. Russian also gave Chinese Nationalist some handguns and Nagant-Mosin rifles. One reason that Nationalist tolerated CCP until 1927 was Soviet money and weapon assistance. Nationalist need assistance in warlord years. Those were early years. There were other assistance in 1930s, so Chinese could absorb some Japanese pressure. Did those handguns include many Bolos? Handgun type was not recorded, so, that's unknown. But what Russian could give? There are very few Nagant 1895 revolvers, nor Russian made Tokarevs in Chinese museums nowadays. So, Broomhandles and Bolos ? Maybe.. but still unknown.

Asian like Bolo, I guess that's related with average hand size. Sig226 (a typical example), Luger, even Broomhandle Red 9's (somewhat) grip are too big -- hard to hold the gun straight with index finger on trigger. Bolo's grip? cannot be more comfortable. Of course, not everyone has same hand size, I mean, average size.

Sergio Natali · 12-04-2014, 02:42 PM

I think it's really fascinating, C96 "broomhandle" history with its 75 or so distinct variations is still partially shrowded by the mist of the past.

I enclose a picture of a "Flat side large ring" and the ones of a "Red 9" that not long ago I was tempted to buy, then I gave up because of price/caliber 9x21IMI

Sergio

sheepherder · 12-04-2014, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

A "Red 5"? For real?
dju

Discussed here before; no known reason for it, but it is done in the same manner as the 'Red Nine' C96's (but in 7.63 cal). Looks like same paint even.

I tell people it is Nigel Mansell's personal Mauser...

rhuff · 12-04-2014, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I tell people it is Nigel Mansell's personal Mauser...

I am one of those folks that know what you mean by this statement.

alvin · 12-04-2014, 06:20 PM

Bought one from another collector. He'd like to sell it, but no one wants it. Relatively speaking, it's more expensive than re-blued and re-bored Bolos that new collectors currently bidding hot on gunbroker.com, but this is a gun in original shape with nice bore. 7,63x25mm ammo's more expensive than 9x19mm ammo, but as a collectible, not many rounds will go through it anyway -- a box of PPU 7,63 ammo can test 5 guns. Now, this thing is on road, I will see how it looks in hand soon..

Not consecutively numbered, but the s/n of this one is only 8 away from another instance that I have.

Sergio Natali · 12-05-2014, 05:49 AM

From this single shot it looks quite nice, let us know more about it when you can.

Sergio

alanint · 12-05-2014, 06:28 AM

Although a standard C96 and not a Bolo, this is perhaps the most famous C96 to the American Layman. Caliber is 20 Megawatt Plasma Discharge,

:

alvin · 12-06-2014, 09:28 PM

If rare enough, less condition is acceptable. Remember the police who saved a bunch of C&R pistols? He got a few rare ones. These are rare in the Western world. Chinese don't routinely reblue service guns, so those are still in original condition, not nice condition, but original.

====

But he did not have Mauser 6-shot, 20-shot, pre-war Bolo, nor Spanish Azul. And, no Red 9 (Red 9 is relatively common here, but rare there). So, we still have something that he does not have

Weird enough -- he does not .45ACP Shansei,,,, I believe Shansei is only popular in America.

alvin · 12-09-2014, 03:27 PM

Arrived. In general, it's good. Blue is fine, with minor erosion on magazine well. Matching, but with one issue -- the gun is 433238, but the panels are 433258. 3 vs 5, is it famous "Factory Error"?? God knows. H marked on both panels, probably grip fitter's name initial.

This stock attaches this gun perfectly, not too tight, and not too loose. It's amazing, because it does not fit any gun that passed my hand, except this one. Will give it test firing over the weekend.

sheepherder · 12-09-2014, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

Arrived. In general, it's good. Blue is fine, with minor erosion on magazine well. Matching, but with one issue -- the gun is 433238, but the panels are 433258. 3 vs 5, is it famous "Factory Error"??

Short barrel ["Bolo"] on full-size C96 gripframe/mismatched numbers would lead me to believe 'mixmaster', but not a problem to me. Hard rubber grips definitely a plus. What little of stock showing looks too good to be that old...

But you are much more experienced than I will ever be. If you have doubts then you are likely correct.

Which rear sight does it have? 500m or 1,000m?

I like it.

alvin · 12-09-2014, 04:45 PM

50-500m.

The panels,,,, that depends on ownership. For other people's gun, they are mixmaster. For my gun, of course it's "factory error"

Just a joke. Panel numbering style being correct, full s/n for this variation, plus an extra letter. Another instance is in my hand, 433230, the extra letter on panel is "X". Myth. On a LRH made almost 20 years early, the letter was "K". Myth.

This stock was sanded in the past. Too smooth. Came separately a few years ago.

alvin · 12-09-2014, 10:07 PM

Avatar. A pair of "Germany". Post WWI pre-Bolo variation. Supposed to be scarce, not huge amount of these were made, but quite a few of them are in the US. Some come with matching stocks. This variation is rare in China. Museum & police do not have it.

Sergio Natali · 12-10-2014, 03:18 AM

Alvin

Congratulations, beautiful gun anyway!

Sergio

alvin · 12-10-2014, 06:16 AM

These were pre-1922. The quality is better than wartime production, but not as good as those salt blued instances made in late 1920s and 1930s, let alone those early pre-1904 Mausers.

Thought about the lettering on panels again... "X" was probably a substitute letter for duplicate name initials.

Another myth that have never been resolved are under barrel markings. These two, s/n only 8 away, the general under barrel stamping have same layouts. But quite a few different symbols. Probably those symbol were used to identify inspectors,,, who checked what. That's a guess. Otherwise, no reason to have same layout and all those different symbols.

Sergio Natali · 12-10-2014, 09:26 AM

I've got a Prewar commercial black hard rubber grips are made of "guttaperca"

Sergio

11-27-2014, 03:19 PM	#1
CAP Black User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Fairmont, WV Right here in Mountaineer country and God's country Posts: 767 Thanks: 100 Thanked 168 Times in 96 Posts	Broomhandle What is a Bolo Broomhandle?

12-04-2014, 10:00 AM	#3
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	Pic of Bolo from other thread...As Alvin noted, shorter barrel and smaller grip... The Bolo compared to my 'Red Five' C96 in 7.63 Mauser cal... Attached Images __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

12-04-2014, 11:34 AM	#5
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Here in Italy "Bolo" broomhandles are not too rare, also because about 345,000.00 of them were made between 1920/1930 but for some reason the average quality is rarely very high, whereas the so called "Red 9" are more scarce as only about 135,000.00 of them were produced, BUT here they get rechambered 9X21 IMI sooooo as usual in these cases the real collectible value "drops" to about USD 2,500.00 Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

12-04-2014, 02:42 PM	#7
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	I think it's really fascinating, C96 "broomhandle" history with its 75 or so distinct variations is still partially shrowded by the mist of the past. I enclose a picture of a "Flat side large ring" and the ones of a "Red 9" that not long ago I was tempted to buy, then I gave up because of price/caliber 9x21IMI Sergio Attached Thumbnails __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

12-04-2014, 06:20 PM	#10
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Bought one from another collector. He'd like to sell it, but no one wants it. Relatively speaking, it's more expensive than re-blued and re-bored Bolos that new collectors currently bidding hot on gunbroker.com, but this is a gun in original shape with nice bore. 7,63x25mm ammo's more expensive than 9x19mm ammo, but as a collectible, not many rounds will go through it anyway -- a box of PPU 7,63 ammo can test 5 guns. Now, this thing is on road, I will see how it looks in hand soon.. Not consecutively numbered, but the s/n of this one is only 8 away from another instance that I have. Attached Thumbnails

11-27-2014, 03:38 PM	#2
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	It's an English nickname for small grip C96. Commonly referred as "Bolo", or "Bolo Mauser". Most of Bolos are 10-shot with 4" barrel. Small amount of them have 5.5" barrel, and rare variation were 6-shot. The origin of the nick name is a myth. Saying this type of C96 was Russian Bolshevik political official's favorite in 1920s. So it's called "Bolo". But in today's classification, no matter small grip C96 being made in pre-war era or in 1920s, it's called "Bolo" as long as the grip is small. Bolo were used extensively in China. One of the best known Bolo was the one in this 13-minute video (with English subtitle): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ze_K-HLUog

12-04-2014, 10:28 AM	#4
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	A "Red 5"? For real? dju

12-05-2014, 05:49 AM	#11
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	From this single shot it looks quite nice, let us know more about it when you can. Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

12-05-2014, 06:28 AM	#12
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Although a standard C96 and not a Bolo, this is perhaps the most famous C96 to the American Layman. Caliber is 20 Megawatt Plasma Discharge, : Attached Thumbnails

12-06-2014, 09:28 PM	#13
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	If rare enough, less condition is acceptable. Remember the police who saved a bunch of C&R pistols? He got a few rare ones. These are rare in the Western world. Chinese don't routinely reblue service guns, so those are still in original condition, not nice condition, but original. ==== But he did not have Mauser 6-shot, 20-shot, pre-war Bolo, nor Spanish Azul. And, no Red 9 (Red 9 is relatively common here, but rare there). So, we still have something that he does not have Weird enough -- he does not .45ACP Shansei,,,, I believe Shansei is only popular in America. Attached Thumbnails

12-09-2014, 03:27 PM	#14
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Arrived. In general, it's good. Blue is fine, with minor erosion on magazine well. Matching, but with one issue -- the gun is 433238, but the panels are 433258. 3 vs 5, is it famous "Factory Error"?? God knows. H marked on both panels, probably grip fitter's name initial. This stock attaches this gun perfectly, not too tight, and not too loose. It's amazing, because it does not fit any gun that passed my hand, except this one. Will give it test firing over the weekend. Attached Thumbnails

12-09-2014, 04:45 PM	#16
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	50-500m. The panels,,,, that depends on ownership. For other people's gun, they are mixmaster. For my gun, of course it's "factory error" Just a joke. Panel numbering style being correct, full s/n for this variation, plus an extra letter. Another instance is in my hand, 433230, the extra letter on panel is "X". Myth. On a LRH made almost 20 years early, the letter was "K". Myth. This stock was sanded in the past. Too smooth. Came separately a few years ago.

12-09-2014, 10:07 PM	#17
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Avatar. A pair of "Germany". Post WWI pre-Bolo variation. Supposed to be scarce, not huge amount of these were made, but quite a few of them are in the US. Some come with matching stocks. This variation is rare in China. Museum & police do not have it. Attached Thumbnails

12-10-2014, 03:18 AM	#18
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Alvin Congratulations, beautiful gun anyway! Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

12-10-2014, 06:16 AM	#19
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	These were pre-1922. The quality is better than wartime production, but not as good as those salt blued instances made in late 1920s and 1930s, let alone those early pre-1904 Mausers. Thought about the lettering on panels again... "X" was probably a substitute letter for duplicate name initials. Another myth that have never been resolved are under barrel markings. These two, s/n only 8 away, the general under barrel stamping have same layouts. But quite a few different symbols. Probably those symbol were used to identify inspectors,,, who checked what. That's a guess. Otherwise, no reason to have same layout and all those different symbols. Attached Thumbnails

12-10-2014, 09:26 AM	#20
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	I've got a Prewar commercial black hard rubber grips are made of "guttaperca" Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.