From Pikelhaube to Steel

cirelaw · 06-20-2018, 10:27 AM

When did Germany make the change? Tks Eric

George Anderson · 06-20-2018, 10:41 AM

1916.

cirelaw · 06-20-2018, 11:57 AM

TKS, I looked and the pretty one you sold me has the date '1916'

HerrKaiser · 06-20-2018, 12:05 PM

I have one from 1915, but yeah they changed in 1916 because it turned out that steel does a lot better than leather at protecting soldiers from shrapnel and other battlefield conditions. Combined with the fact that Germany’s leather was running in short supply during the war due to the embargo and that the spike on the Pickelhaube gave away individual soldiers’ positions in the trench lines.

cirelaw · 06-20-2018, 01:09 PM

Herr, thank you! What was the spike for?

cirelaw · 07-25-2018, 12:00 PM

Made of only leather! What is "JR.111."?

DavidJayUden · 07-25-2018, 12:18 PM

Eric and all:
I have a pikelhaube very similar in features and condition to the one in the photos and am wondering about current market prices. Any ballpark guesses?
dju

cirelaw · 07-25-2018, 12:20 PM

Thank You David, Is it all original? I have included a wonderful article showing their history and examples!! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickelhaube

George Anderson · 07-25-2018, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

Made of only leather! What is "JR.111."?

Infantry Regiment 111

cirelaw · 07-25-2018, 12:32 PM

Good Ole George!!!! TKS

cirelaw · 07-25-2018, 12:44 PM

George Anderson has supplied me with of my collection. All of my WW1 lugers and accessories, including almost all I post including my 'Way Cool' 1914 DWM Artillery~Sweet! TKS! Your Most Loyal Collector of German WW1!!!!!

DavidJayUden · 07-25-2018, 01:01 PM

Eric:
Yes, I believe mine to be all original. As I recall the chin strap is thinner and probably frail, and the side rosettes are a different color, but the rest looks about right.
dju

HerrKaiser · 07-25-2018, 01:52 PM

As a reference, about a year ago I bought my 1915 JR 82 one with all original parts for around $450. As for the spike, I’ve heard multiple reasons and stories so take them as you will. Most common purposes being for plumes when in parade dress (although that seemed to be more limited to the aristocracy and high ranking officers) and the more far fetched story that somehow they were supposed to help fend off lances from charging cavalry. I’ve also heard some stories that say they were pointed so that in case of close in fighting, you could use it as a weapon to head butt your adversary. Not sure how many of those are true but that’s what I have heard.

DonVoigt · 07-25-2018, 04:47 PM

Spike?
How about just a "decoration"? Why would it need a purpose?
Head butt with a spike on the top of your head? You're kidding, right?

George Anderson · 07-25-2018, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Spike?
How about just a "decoration"? Why would it need a purpose?
Head butt with a spike on the top of your head? You're kidding, right?

The Pickelhauben were intended to allow for easier recognition of friendly troops during the chaos of the battlefield.

Interestingly, after Germany's victory over France in 1871, many European and Latin American armies adopted the Pickelhaube as did the US.

HerrKaiser · 07-25-2018, 05:17 PM

Don,
Never said that I agree with the use of the Pickelhauben as head butting weapons, though I’m sure in the chaos that was the Great War SOMEONE tried it. Probably was not very effective though. Regardless, their aesthetics are top notch so I can care less what the real reasons might have been so long as I can collect them. Many units by 1915 had ordered their troops to remove the brass spike when at the front line to help conceal positions.

JTD · 07-25-2018, 09:27 PM

how about my spike is bigger than your spike....(rank)

cirelaw · 07-25-2018, 09:35 PM

Maybe??

ithacaartist · 07-25-2018, 11:55 PM

http://www.nyc-techwriters.com/milit...n_helmets1.htm

gunnertwo · 07-26-2018, 01:10 AM

There is a forum devoted to spike helmets. It is:

https://www.pickelhaubes.com

G2

06-20-2018, 10:27 AM	#1
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	From Pikelhaube to Steel When did Germany make the change? Tks Eric

06-20-2018, 12:05 PM	#4
HerrKaiser User Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: South Carolina Posts: 848 Thanks: 784 Thanked 861 Times in 411 Posts	I have one from 1915, but yeah they changed in 1916 because it turned out that steel does a lot better than leather at protecting soldiers from shrapnel and other battlefield conditions. Combined with the fact that Germany’s leather was running in short supply during the war due to the embargo and that the spike on the Pickelhaube gave away individual soldiers’ positions in the trench lines. __________________ -QM Looking for Mauser S/42 toggle train #22

07-25-2018, 12:00 PM	#6
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Pretty But Deadly Made of only leather! What is "JR.111."? Attached Thumbnails

07-25-2018, 01:52 PM	#13
HerrKaiser User Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: South Carolina Posts: 848 Thanks: 784 Thanked 861 Times in 411 Posts	As a reference, about a year ago I bought my 1915 JR 82 one with all original parts for around $450. As for the spike, I’ve heard multiple reasons and stories so take them as you will. Most common purposes being for plumes when in parade dress (although that seemed to be more limited to the aristocracy and high ranking officers) and the more far fetched story that somehow they were supposed to help fend off lances from charging cavalry. I’ve also heard some stories that say they were pointed so that in case of close in fighting, you could use it as a weapon to head butt your adversary. Not sure how many of those are true but that’s what I have heard. __________________ -QM Looking for Mauser S/42 toggle train #22

07-25-2018, 04:47 PM	#14
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Spike? How about just a "decoration"? Why would it need a purpose? Head butt with a spike on the top of your head? You're kidding, right? __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

06-20-2018, 10:41 AM	#2
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	1916.

06-20-2018, 11:57 AM	#3
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	TKS, I looked and the pretty one you sold me has the date '1916'

06-20-2018, 01:09 PM	#5
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Herr, thank you! What was the spike for?

07-25-2018, 12:18 PM	#7
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Eric and all: I have a pikelhaube very similar in features and condition to the one in the photos and am wondering about current market prices. Any ballpark guesses? dju

07-25-2018, 12:20 PM	#8
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Thank You David, Is it all original? I have included a wonderful article showing their history and examples!! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickelhaube

07-25-2018, 12:32 PM	#10
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Good Ole George!!!! TKS

07-25-2018, 12:44 PM	#11
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	George Anderson has supplied me with of my collection. All of my WW1 lugers and accessories, including almost all I post including my 'Way Cool' 1914 DWM Artillery~Sweet! TKS! Your Most Loyal Collector of German WW1!!!!!

07-25-2018, 01:01 PM	#12
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Eric: Yes, I believe mine to be all original. As I recall the chin strap is thinner and probably frail, and the side rosettes are a different color, but the rest looks about right. dju

07-25-2018, 05:17 PM	#16
HerrKaiser User Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: South Carolina Posts: 848 Thanks: 784 Thanked 861 Times in 411 Posts	Don, Never said that I agree with the use of the Pickelhauben as head butting weapons, though I’m sure in the chaos that was the Great War SOMEONE tried it. Probably was not very effective though. Regardless, their aesthetics are top notch so I can care less what the real reasons might have been so long as I can collect them. Many units by 1915 had ordered their troops to remove the brass spike when at the front line to help conceal positions. __________________ -QM Looking for Mauser S/42 toggle train #22

07-25-2018, 09:27 PM	#17
JTD User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PA Posts: 425 Thanks: 217 Thanked 408 Times in 149 Posts	how about my spike is bigger than your spike....(rank)

07-25-2018, 09:35 PM	#18
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Maybe??

07-25-2018, 11:55 PM	#19
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,346 Thanks: 7,277 Thanked 2,578 Times in 1,365 Posts	http://www.nyc-techwriters.com/milit...n_helmets1.htm __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

07-26-2018, 01:10 AM	#20
gunnertwo User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Nampa, Idaho Posts: 623 Thanks: 826 Thanked 930 Times in 363 Posts	There is a forum devoted to spike helmets. It is: https://www.pickelhaubes.com G2