World of Lugers Proof Marks

[Thor]

I got a copy of this fantastic book from Hugh Clark! I sure am sorry that there seems to be no plans to reprint it so the number of these floating around is limited. I would like to see it reprinted so more of this fantastic information could be distributed amoungst Luger collectors. I am wondering if there are any additions/omissions of information that have been found since this book was printed in 1977. All people serious about collecting Lugers or understanding the many mirad of markings should try to find a copy! They appear on Ebay or some of the other auctions occasionally! Hugh Clark had another copy on one of the auction places not too long ago. The are normally selling in the $300 range which is a whole lot for a book! But the information contained in them is worth it! I had never seen a copy before myself, but if I had, I would have started looking for a copy to buy long ago! ~Thor~

[Thor]

There are two copies currently available that I know of, one is from a Book Store in Burke, VA and another is on ebay currently both are shown at $350. ~Thor~

[tom]

Hi Ted,


I am very fortunate to have a signed copy that was gifted to me in 1977,it is an indispensible reference.


Having said that, however, there are *several* glaring errors in the book that have been documented through the study of archival material by Goertz et al.


All in all, a great book to have tho; I wouldn't sell mine for anything!


Tom

Has anyone compiled a list of errors that could be shared on the forum? This would be quite helpful to those of us have the book and depend on it regularly.

[tom]

Hi Art,


I don't know if anyone has done that; might be an interesting project to undertake, tho.


Mebbe if I get some time over the holidays I'll start it.


Tom

Bear in mind that a lot of the info contained within that book is rubbish. That was established many years ago on Auto-Mag. Remember; the people who put this book together are the same ones who brought you the infamous "SD" Luger, 12 - 15 years ago. The actual intent of the book appeared to be; to lend validty to faked items. There is some "good" info in the book, but you need to know enough to sort the fly-poop from the pepper.

I think it would most helpful to many of us if you tell us what is fake in the book. What is the "SD" luger? Is the Book mostly fiction? Who were the guys who made up stuff for the book? Are they some of the people that are currently considered experts[at least in some quarters]? Do you believe Kenyon was a willing party to publishing known fake information? If all this is true--where can we turn for accurate and factual info on markings and proof marks?

[tom]

Hi Art,


I would be *very* hesitant to accuse anyone of deliberately publishing or assisting in the publication of deliberately false information.


Just remember that since 1988, when the wall fell, we have had unfettered access to info that was not available when Sam did his book in the 1970s.


I suspect that misunderstandings and false assumptions from that period are more the culprit than any deliberate attempt to deceive.


Remember the old Counter Intel maxim, "Never assume a conspiracy if ineptitude will suffice as an explanation".


Tom

[Kyrie]

Hi Joe,


Thatâ??s a little harsh :-(


â??World of Lugersâ?� is Costanzoâ??s life work. In it he documents what was known, believed, and assumed about Luger markings as of twenty plus years ago. More recent research has shown some of the marking identifications in â??World of Lugersâ?� to be wrong - but the vast majority of the information in â??World of Lugersâ?� still isnâ??t questioned.


All of the massive reference works that cover a tremendous scope will contain errors, whether they be of commission or omission. â??World of Lugers is not exception to that. But it is largely correct and I highly recommend it to Luger collectors.


Best regards,


Kyrie

I would love to answer all of your questions but would do so only off line, I have a feeling that you may know as much or more about the answers than I do anyway. As far as the book itself goes, I think it is overall extremely good and in many ways a milestone in collectable firearms reference formats. There are some errors I know for sure and probably some that I have'nt even caught. Many of the exoctic markings like the Afrika Korps palm tree is noted as being mostly fake (I would say ALL fake) other things are just a result of weak research like the BAXXI (or whatever numeral) meaning 21st Battlion rather than Bekliedungs Amt 21st Armee Korp, which all of us Imperial militaria collectors knew well 25 years ago when the book came out. I for one really like the systematic way Costanzo covers the marking combinations and the excellent approach to cross referencing the material throughout the book.

And anyone who would like my copy for $300.00 is welcome to it. First money order takes it!

[lugerholsterrepair]

Wish I had the guts to try and sell a load of rubbish for $300.00. And to accuse Mr Costanzo of deliberately publishing this excellent volume to lend validity to faked items seems beyond the pale. Maybe you would like to back up "this load of rubbish" with whatever facts are at your disposal. After that you can throw in your qualifications as such an expert to criticize Mr. Costanzo's book and point out your book published to correct these supposed glaring deficencies and fabrications. I would be very interested to hear all about this most interesting accusation and what I see as slander on a man who in my opinion did the Luger collecting fraternity a great service. I can understand that many facts have come to light since this work was published and as a NAPCA member I know many interested parties have done extensive research since publication but that has nothing to do with these baseless statements. Can't wait to hear more about this. That is if Joe Delong has anything to say that makes sense. Jerry Burney

[BILL]

I also use the WOL book a lot and understand that there must be some new findings (this is not a new book by any means). I am quite sure that it was not compiled with the sole intent to defraud anyone or to misinform anyone. I would dearly appreciate any corrections that are well documented today (sort of a 'living' document) since this is such a comprehensive and wonderful book.

After reading all these critical comments I am thoroughly disgusted with my copy, and will dump it for the first $1000 offer.

Jerry,


I think you shoud calm down, and re-read my posting.

[Kyrie]

Hi Joe,


If youâ??re serious, put it up for auction on Ebay or Auction Arms. â??World of Lugersâ?� typically brings between $350 and $400 when auctioned there. Youâ??ll make more than you want, and the book can go to someone who appreciates it


Best regards,


Kyrie

[Kyrie]

Hi Joe,


In point of fact I did read your post. Here is a quotation:


â??The actual intent of the book appeared to be; to lend validty to faked items.â?�


Thatâ??s slanderous, and the responses you have had to date are mild in comparison.


Regards,


Kyrie

Quite serious. Just thought I would give my new-found "friends" first shot. However, yours' is the better idea. Thanks!

[Kyrie]

[lugerholsterrepair]

Joe, I have reread your statements and am as calm as I am likely to get. What I would really like to read is an explination of this baseless accusation concerning Mr. Costanza and what I believe to be his difinitive work on German markings and proofs. You might have noticed , you nor anyone else that I am aware of has since published any work that refutes anything In World of Lugers. While I agree there are some discrepencies in the work and mistakes it is still all we have at this time to base our study of the subject on. I also agree with others here on the Forum there should be a list of corrections if anyone has any and can back them up with imperical evidence. So the fact remains you have made accusations that require proof to keep your good name. Please explain yourself. Or simply apologize for slandering the good name of Mr. Costanza . Which will it be? Jerry Burney