Luger in 38 super caliber?

[Major Tom]

Would it be possible to rechamber a 9mm luger barrel to 38 super? I always liked that caliber so was wondering if possible. How do you think the toggle system would hold up?

[Vlim]

Herbert Werle built a P08 that fired 7.63 Mauser rounds, so I don't think it is impossible.

https://youtu.be/h9nGx7eXlEk

[Doubs]

Possible? Yes. Practical? Not in my opinion.

The .38 Super case is over 3mm longer than the 9mm and the case is semi-rimmed which could cause a problem with the extractor. Bullets would need to be seated deep to keep OAL to where they would feed through the magazine.

The rim problem could be eliminated by using the rimless 9mm Largo case but the whole purpose of a .38 Super is increased velocities and true .38 Super velocities would likely be too hot for the Luger mechanism.

Again, just my opinion.

[schutzen-jager]

if you have the money , equipment , + knowledge i/d say yes it is possible , but why ? -

[Major Tom]

Thank you gentlemen.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Major Tom

Would it be possible to rechamber a 9mm luger barrel to 38 super?

Absolutely! Post a big smiling pic of yourself before test firing it!

[G.T.]

Back in the cave man days, JVM made a couple of them in 38 super, I made the mag bottoms for them, and for one I made a presentation box... He cut up and welded two frames to get the proper length, and made the receiver and toggle parts longer as well? To the best of my recollection, they worked fine?... best to all, til.....lat'r.....GT....

[spangy]

Originally Posted by G.T.

He cut up and welded two frames to get the proper length, and made the receiver and toggle parts longer as well? .....lat'r.....GT....

Dam I would love to see a picture of this rig

Any chance you have some pictures packed away somewhere G.T. ??? It must have been exciting to fire this baby ya ???

[Doubs]

Originally Posted by G.T.

Back in the cave man days, JVM made a couple of them in 38 super, I made the mag bottoms for them, and for one I made a presentation box... He cut up and welded two frames to get the proper length, and made the receiver and toggle parts longer as well? To the best of my recollection, they worked fine?... best to all, til.....lat'r.....GT....

That, like the .45ACP Lugers, sounds doable and a fun project. The .38 Super is a fine cartridge.

But, if I understand the OP's original question correctly, he's asking if you could simply rechamber an existing Luger to fire .38 Super. I think it possible but I don't think it advisable. My opinion, of course.

[G.T.]

Hi Doubs, in John V Martz's later years, he switched from the two frame creations because of the mountain of work, and if possible, he milled out the existing frames to accommodate the larger cartridge...
I don't think he made any of the 38 supers in this fashion? Best, til....lat'r...GT

[G.T.]

Sorry, no pictures.. I made grips for one or two of them, and George Sarkiskian? (spelling??) checkered them for him? I also made a presentation box for one of them, he had them numbered with a frame side plate, 1 of 10, 2 of 10, etc....
It took me months to make that stuff as I didn't have any equipment? I sent it out to John immeadiatly, within minutes, when completed, never any pictures?
I have made a lot of "stuff" for Luger gunsmiths and forum members, but I have never taken any pictures of any of it, at least that I can remember? I always felt that it was a private thing between the customer and his Luger, as it belonged to him anyway.
I don't mind though, as there is always another project just around the corner.... ,,, best to all, til.....lat'r......GT...

[spangy]

Thanks G.T. ... I totally understand and respect your answer.
Welding two frames to get the proper length, and making the receiver and toggle parts longer is something I would like to see one day.

The depth of talent here @ lugerforum is phenomenal.

[Doubs]

Originally Posted by G.T.

Hi Doubs, in John V Martz's later years, he switched from the two frame creations because of the mountain of work, and if possible, he milled out the existing frames to accommodate the larger cartridge...
I don't think he made any of the 38 supers in this fashion? Best, til....lat'r...GT

Hi G.T., I've only seen pictures of John Martz's .45ACP Lugers but what works of art they are. WAY beyond my means but hey, I can dream, can't I?

Years ago, a friend and well known 1911 gunsmith named Ed Banks, took my 1927 Argentine .45 and turned it into a seven caliber setup. The original slide is used for .45ACP and .38/45. He put BoMar adjustable sights on a 9mm slide and it's good for .30 Mauser, 9mm, .38 Super, 9mm Largo and .41AE. There was other work involved and, of course, it requires the barrels, recoil springs and magazines. It's reliable with everything except the .41AE. The rebated rim causes problems with feeding.

Stay Safe, Walker

[G.T.]

I had the enjoyable opportunity to stay with John and Neola twice in all the years i worked on his projects. My son and I were at his house for several days both times, and we had a great time. We spent most of the time just chatting, but we did visit the range (his private range right out in his yard!) several times, and always with one of his creations that was in the "prototype" stage. He welcomed someone to shoot his creations, as he was a stickler for function as well as beauty. I remember him telling me each little secret to finally achieve the consistency he was seeking on each caliber type. He stated that the only caliber that really gave him fits was his Luger conversion of the .22 mag!!! He had all but given up on it, and refused to sell it as it was in his mind, snake bit? But as a last resort, he started to shorten the barrel, I believe nearly an inch at a time and at some point after a couple of cuts, the thing started to work! And did so consistently. He stated that it was the only one, and he would not go down that path again... I wonder who has it now as many of his customers were not necessarily Luger collectors, but more into the artful creations John was producing. Long time ago now, seems like somebody else was there and not me. Still, I have the memories, and the satisfaction of being able to call him my friend... Best to all, til......lat'r......GT...

[zork]

GT. I can tell you exactly where the 22 mag prototype Luger is, it is in my safe. John did have fits trying to make it work but solved the problem by lengthening the barrel, not shortening it.He did make more Lugers in 22 mag, I believe he ended up making 9 pistols and 3 carbines in 22 mag, I knew John and Neola for many years and used to love watching John work. (I have zero mechanical talent but can break anything ever built)I also have one of the 22 mag pistols. When I picked it up from a collection in LA I took it to Johns to try it out. We walked out to his range and I fired a clip, it worked fine. John then tried to fire it but it kept jamming. John looked at me and said, "who made this piece of crap!" as an aside I also own the first gun John ever made, a baby P38. As for 38 Supers, John made 19 Lugers in 38 Super (including 1 baby and 1 carbine). He made 9 P38s in 38 super ( 1 baby). Many of Johns creations ended up on the cover of Guns and Ammo, you might check their archives for the article.Doug

[beachbaker]

Thanks Doug you are a wealth of information as your memory is still really sharp for an old guy.Curt

[G.T.]

Thank you for the info on John, at the time I visited John, he was adamant about no more 22 mag Lugers! But, as you have stated, he did find the magic and obviously made more of them, I was unaware of them all save the one. I couldn't remember the cure as you stated, but remember it went against conventional thinking, and was a surprise to him as well... longer makes sense. I wish I'd have been close in proximity as well, but that was never to be, as Arizona became my final roost!
Now, I have another question, I built for John, on special order, a replica hard shell holster make out of rock maple for what he told me at the time, was for Neola's baby Luger? It was light brown, and lined with blue Ultrasuede... I asked Neola about it after Johns passing, and she had no recollection of ever having seen it?... So, did you end up with that item as well?.. It really was kind of neat, I don't know if i could do it again... .... Best to you Doug, and thanks for the contact..... best, til....lat'r....GT

[zork]

GT, The 22 mag prototype ended up with a 10 and a half inch barrel and a forend. I`ve never fired it, as for the hardshell wooden? holster, I never saw or heard of such a thing. There is a beautiful wooden case for a baby luger, with a blue liner that is still in the family. it held Johns prototype 380 baby. Noela`s Baby Luger (number 60) is also still in the family. Ill send you a picture of the gun in the case if you`d like. Ill give you a call. Take care, Doug

[G.T.]

Yes! I'd like to see it, perhaps I made it??? The maple holster was very difficult, more sculpture than case... Back up ten feet, and it looked real! I can't find anyone who knows what happened to it?... Maybe when I'm done with the drum thing I will make another, God willing.... best to you Doug, we were blessed to know the man.... til...lat'r....GT...

[zork]

GT, Blessed indeed! John and Neola were the finest people I ever knew. Talk about integrity! I was with John in the shop years ago when he got a call from a wanna be customer. The guy wanted a baby Luger. At the time there was a long waiting list to get one. When John told him that, the guy offered to pay double the price if John would move him to the front of the waiting list.John was livid, He said not only will I not move you to the front of the list, I will never make you a gun! John couldn't believe someone would ask him to do that. That was John. I admired that 22 mag prototype for many years. I never tried to buy it as John turned down many offers and said he would never sell it. He said he would leave it to me in his will. One day we were hanging out in the shop, and John took it out and GAVE it to me! He said he didn't feel like dying and wanted to see the look on my face when he gave it to me! I was so shocked he could have knocked me over with a wren feather! John being John we had to transfer it and I even waited the 10 days. i miss him. GT, I tried to call you several times, and left messages, maybe I have the wrong number? Email me at zork@comcast .net and leave me a number or email address and I will send down the picture. Take care amigo.Doug