Stopping Rust

DocSkunk · 12-16-2016, 08:12 PM

I have went back a number of pages on the gunsmithing section of the forum and cant find a good thread on this topic.

I have posted pictures of my 1916 artillery luger and a few ideas have popped up on how to stop the rust from eating this pistol but nobody explained how to do this.

I was told to use several liquids from penetrating oil to paint thinner. then hit it with some wire brushes and 0000 steel wool. With no explanation. Im still new to this whole historical old firearms and i dont want to muck it up.

Could someone explain to me a step by step on rust stopping and removal. Do i take the grips off and fill a pan with Liquid Wrench or paint thinner or kerosene and drop the gun in as a whole or in parts? How long? Do i soak the steel wool in oil or run it dry? What happens if the bluing all comes off from soaking it? Can the bluing come off all together if done wrong? ect. ect.

I know its a 1916 and wasnt very common but not rare. Just want to save it. maybe take it out and shoot it once. Save the history and pass the pistol on to my kids if i have them. Also want to remove some rust from a m1912 Styer Hahn "Hammer".

(if there as a thread hidden way back on this i apologize.)

DonVoigt · 12-16-2016, 10:27 PM

This is the kind of "stuff" you should learn by doing! You are not going to do much harm to that pistol if you follow the advice already given on your other posts. Neglect and time had done the harm, now you can only improve it!

I already told you to take the grips off. Dunk the rest in the thin oil of your choice and let it soak.
If it will come apart easily, take it apart first. But be sure you know how to put it back together again.

Solvent (oil, wd 40, kerosene) won't take the bluing off, just don't use any acid (like vinegar), base(caustic soda or bleach), or naval jelly or coca-cola- they will remove any blue they touch.

Sometimes I take pictures of odd stuff, just in case I forget.

If the grip screws don't want to move, put a drop of penetrating oil on the inside and at the bottom where the screw head contacts the frame and let it soak a day or two; repeat if need be.

hayhugh · 12-17-2016, 03:09 AM

Break her down as far as you are able and soak in penetrating oil (Blaster, Kroil, etc) or very light oil to loosen grime. Seen no need for WD 40, I know of gunsmiths who will not allow it in their shop.

mrerick · 12-17-2016, 04:43 AM

After soaking for a few days, use well oiled 0000 steel wool on a well oiled surface and slowly work to eliminate all the red oxide rust.

This gun is pretty severely pitted, and those areas will be difficult to work on. Do the work by hand so that you can control it.

Never put WD-40 on a blued gun. It's a water displacement chemical, not a lubricant or preservative.

Eugen · 12-17-2016, 07:39 AM

Docskunk, you got some great advice. Now keep us posted on your restoration progress.

Now aside from the cosmetics, you need to get that gun ready for the range where you will really begin to enjoy it!

DocSkunk · 12-20-2016, 05:01 PM

Well the pistol is apart. The original screw gave me some issues but i got it off without breaking. It dose thread into the other side where the after market screw is. So thats some good news.

Other good news is the grips both match the pistol. So aside from the mag this is 90% matching.

Im not trying to sound dumb or anything but when ya'all say soak do you me submerge the pistol in oil or just hose it down in a pan? Its ready to go just need to hose or submerge. 2 days be long enough?

I think im going to reblue it and learn how to do gold inlay. Since this wont be sold ascetics i would like it too look good. If its fire-able then all the better take it out once and be done. Ill let a gunsmith determine if the barrel is compromised in any ways. The mag cleaned up well as well as the minor rusting on the Styer Hahn M1912.

Step by Step pics will follow after all done. Ill just be giving highlights in posts till then.

mrerick · 12-20-2016, 05:09 PM

Put enough oil in a pan to cover the pistol, and drop it in and let it absorb the oil.

I don't think it will affect the paint in the "Geschiert" safety marking, but it might be wise to keep the oil off that area if you can.

You can always spray or brush on oil in a shallower tray, it's just that you'll be returning to the gun and doing it many times over several days.

DocSkunk · 12-20-2016, 05:42 PM

All the paint on the "Geschiert" is all gone so im not to worried about it. Not much fun spraying a aerosol can into a pan, only got it aittle full, wifes picking up more.

DonVoigt · 12-21-2016, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocSkunk

All the paint on the "Geschiert" is all gone so im not to worried about it. Not much fun spraying a aerosol can into a pan, only got it aittle full, wifes picking up more.

You can buy WD40 or similar in a non-aerosol container.

spacecoast · 12-21-2016, 09:36 AM

Eugen · 12-21-2016, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacecoast

LOL Makes me think of another good use for used motor oil. Repurpose it as Luger frame basting oil; before I recycle it.

spacecoast · 12-21-2016, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Makes me think of another good use for used motor oil. Repurpose it as Luger frame basting oil; before I recycle it.

Couldn't hurt a rusty old gun, for sure!

rhuff · 12-21-2016, 03:35 PM

I would be more prone to using mineral spirits, kerosene, Balistrol(sp), .....a thin petroleum product that will penetrate all of the nooks and crannys. I, personally, would avoid WD-40 for this procedure.

DonVoigt · 12-21-2016, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhuff

I would be more prone to using mineral spirits, kerosene, Balistrol(sp), .....a thin petroleum product that will penetrate all of the nooks and crannys. I, personally, would avoid WD-40 for this procedure.

Why avoid WD 40? I hear lots of folks say that for various reason, but having used it extensively for over 50 years I don't understand it. It is not a permanent lube nor for storage, but for working and cleaning it is good, IMO.

Ballistol is not thin; the others have no oil in them for lubricity.

I think it matters little what he soaks it in to loosen the rust and work on removing it.

This is being way "over thought"!

Ron Wood · 12-22-2016, 02:22 AM

Good old 3-in-1 oil is just as good as any modern product for soaking rust and it is pretty cheap. I agree with Don that there is no need for alchemy or over analysis. A brass shell casing is a fairly good tool to work on rust scale once it has been loosened with an oil soak and the brass residue comes off with 0000 steel wool. It won't all come off with the first try and there is no magic that will restore the pits. It will never be beautiful but it will be better than it is now. Lastly, there is no substitute for elbow grease and patience.
Ron

cirelaw · 12-22-2016, 09:09 AM

Luger face-lift!

rhuff · 12-22-2016, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Why avoid WD 40? I hear lots of folks say that for various reason, but having used it extensively for over 50 years I don't understand it. It is not a permanent lube nor for storage, but for working and cleaning it is good, IMO.

Ballistol is not thin; the others have no oil in them for lubricity.

I think it matters little what he soaks it in to loosen the rust and work on removing it.

This is being way "over thought"!

I started using WD-40 in the early 1970s,as it was "the thing' in all of the gun books. I just have not had the same experience that you, obviously, have had. I still have some in my shop, but have not used any in the last 20 years. We all find products that work good for US, and accomplish what we want/need for them to do. As I said, WD-40 just didn't do what I wanted, so I have found other products. YMMV

DonVoigt · 12-22-2016, 01:27 PM

My only point was there is no reason to "avoid" WD40; I would agree that there are newer, maybe better, but certainly other products that will work!

Actually, when buying the aerosol cans, I buy what is on sale, available, or cheap! Be it WD40, LPS, Radiator Speciality, or generic; for cleaning it just makes no difference to me.

Mac Cat · 12-22-2016, 03:52 PM

and wear some gloves!

WD-40 and other penetrating oils are easily absorbed into your skin !

I used to repaint commercial airplanes for a summer job in college, and there are a lot of really nasty chemicals out there that will wreak your liver or blood chemistry.

Gloves and face mask are cheap and should already be under your kitchen sink and on your work bench!

(I gave blood once, when a friend had to get a blood transfusion after absorbing too much MEK, while preparing his plane for new paint - very nasty stuff and horrible hangover, too!)

DocSkunk · 01-21-2017, 10:37 AM

Well after 31 days soaking in Liquid Wrench i finally took it out and hit it with 0000 steal wool and find steel brush. I think it looks alittle better but far from over. comparing the before and after helps. I know im rubbish at this. First time doing it. Dont think i mucked it up to bad. Here are some pictures. The parts havent dried in these pictures, not sure if that will help.

WARNING: LIQUID WRENCH EATS LATEX GLOVES

Before:

After:

Before:

After:

Before:

After:

All together

12-16-2016, 08:12 PM	#1
DocSkunk User Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 25 Thanks: 5 Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts	Stopping Rust I have went back a number of pages on the gunsmithing section of the forum and cant find a good thread on this topic. I have posted pictures of my 1916 artillery luger and a few ideas have popped up on how to stop the rust from eating this pistol but nobody explained how to do this. I was told to use several liquids from penetrating oil to paint thinner. then hit it with some wire brushes and 0000 steel wool. With no explanation. Im still new to this whole historical old firearms and i dont want to muck it up. Could someone explain to me a step by step on rust stopping and removal. Do i take the grips off and fill a pan with Liquid Wrench or paint thinner or kerosene and drop the gun in as a whole or in parts? How long? Do i soak the steel wool in oil or run it dry? What happens if the bluing all comes off from soaking it? Can the bluing come off all together if done wrong? ect. ect. I know its a 1916 and wasnt very common but not rare. Just want to save it. maybe take it out and shoot it once. Save the history and pass the pistol on to my kids if i have them. Also want to remove some rust from a m1912 Styer Hahn "Hammer". (if there as a thread hidden way back on this i apologize.) __________________ Just like a skunk, I spray and pray...with abit of aim. Hail Odin the All Father and Hail Tyr may they bless my weapons of war and keep my aim true. Looking for mag: SN 7887 SN 6728 Have: SN 1207 wood bottom. SN 6024

12-16-2016, 10:27 PM	#2
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	This is the kind of "stuff" you should learn by doing! You are not going to do much harm to that pistol if you follow the advice already given on your other posts. Neglect and time had done the harm, now you can only improve it! I already told you to take the grips off. Dunk the rest in the thin oil of your choice and let it soak. If it will come apart easily, take it apart first. But be sure you know how to put it back together again. Solvent (oil, wd 40, kerosene) won't take the bluing off, just don't use any acid (like vinegar), base(caustic soda or bleach), or naval jelly or coca-cola- they will remove any blue they touch. Sometimes I take pictures of odd stuff, just in case I forget. If the grip screws don't want to move, put a drop of penetrating oil on the inside and at the bottom where the screw head contacts the frame and let it soak a day or two; repeat if need be. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

12-17-2016, 04:43 AM	#4
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,907 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,509 Posts	After soaking for a few days, use well oiled 0000 steel wool on a well oiled surface and slowly work to eliminate all the red oxide rust. This gun is pretty severely pitted, and those areas will be difficult to work on. Do the work by hand so that you can control it. Never put WD-40 on a blued gun. It's a water displacement chemical, not a lubricant or preservative. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-17-2016, 07:39 AM	#5
Eugen User Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Newburgh,IN Posts: 786 Thanks: 390 Thanked 627 Times in 332 Posts	Docskunk, you got some great advice. Now keep us posted on your restoration progress. Now aside from the cosmetics, you need to get that gun ready for the range where you will really begin to enjoy it! __________________ “God created war so that Americans would learn geography.” ― Mark Twain

12-20-2016, 05:01 PM	#6
DocSkunk User Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 25 Thanks: 5 Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts	Well the pistol is apart. The original screw gave me some issues but i got it off without breaking. It dose thread into the other side where the after market screw is. So thats some good news. Other good news is the grips both match the pistol. So aside from the mag this is 90% matching. Im not trying to sound dumb or anything but when ya'all say soak do you me submerge the pistol in oil or just hose it down in a pan? Its ready to go just need to hose or submerge. 2 days be long enough? I think im going to reblue it and learn how to do gold inlay. Since this wont be sold ascetics i would like it too look good. If its fire-able then all the better take it out once and be done. Ill let a gunsmith determine if the barrel is compromised in any ways. The mag cleaned up well as well as the minor rusting on the Styer Hahn M1912. Step by Step pics will follow after all done. Ill just be giving highlights in posts till then. __________________ Just like a skunk, I spray and pray...with abit of aim. Hail Odin the All Father and Hail Tyr may they bless my weapons of war and keep my aim true. Looking for mag: SN 7887 SN 6728 Have: SN 1207 wood bottom. SN 6024

12-17-2016, 03:09 AM	#3
hayhugh User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Florida/Penna Posts: 891 Thanks: 856 Thanked 511 Times in 274 Posts	Break her down as far as you are able and soak in penetrating oil (Blaster, Kroil, etc) or very light oil to loosen grime. Seen no need for WD 40, I know of gunsmiths who will not allow it in their shop.

12-20-2016, 05:09 PM	#7
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,907 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,509 Posts	Put enough oil in a pan to cover the pistol, and drop it in and let it absorb the oil. I don't think it will affect the paint in the "Geschiert" safety marking, but it might be wise to keep the oil off that area if you can. You can always spray or brush on oil in a shallower tray, it's just that you'll be returning to the gun and doing it many times over several days. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-20-2016, 05:42 PM	#8
DocSkunk User Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 25 Thanks: 5 Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts	All the paint on the "Geschiert" is all gone so im not to worried about it. Not much fun spraying a aerosol can into a pan, only got it aittle full, wifes picking up more. __________________ Just like a skunk, I spray and pray...with abit of aim. Hail Odin the All Father and Hail Tyr may they bless my weapons of war and keep my aim true. Looking for mag: SN 7887 SN 6728 Have: SN 1207 wood bottom. SN 6024

12-21-2016, 09:36 AM	#10
spacecoast User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: FL and PA Posts: 332 Thanks: 276 Thanked 243 Times in 109 Posts	__________________ My avatars are the Bulgarian word for "Fire", as seen on my 1900, 1906 and 1908 Bulgarian Contract DWM Lugers. Looking for a DWM Commercial side plate #95

12-21-2016, 03:35 PM	#13
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,288 Thanks: 2,702 Thanked 971 Times in 716 Posts	I would be more prone to using mineral spirits, kerosene, Balistrol(sp), .....a thin petroleum product that will penetrate all of the nooks and crannys. I, personally, would avoid WD-40 for this procedure.

12-22-2016, 02:22 AM	#15
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,010 Thanks: 1,088 Thanked 5,149 Times in 1,694 Posts	Good old 3-in-1 oil is just as good as any modern product for soaking rust and it is pretty cheap. I agree with Don that there is no need for alchemy or over analysis. A brass shell casing is a fairly good tool to work on rust scale once it has been loosened with an oil soak and the brass residue comes off with 0000 steel wool. It won't all come off with the first try and there is no magic that will restore the pits. It will never be beautiful but it will be better than it is now. Lastly, there is no substitute for elbow grease and patience. Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-22-2016, 09:09 AM	#16
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Luger face-lift!

12-22-2016, 01:27 PM	#18
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	My only point was there is no reason to "avoid" WD40; I would agree that there are newer, maybe better, but certainly other products that will work! Actually, when buying the aerosol cans, I buy what is on sale, available, or cheap! Be it WD40, LPS, Radiator Speciality, or generic; for cleaning it just makes no difference to me. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

12-22-2016, 03:52 PM	#19
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 709 Thanks: 2,073 Thanked 590 Times in 316 Posts	and wear some gloves! WD-40 and other penetrating oils are easily absorbed into your skin ! I used to repaint commercial airplanes for a summer job in college, and there are a lot of really nasty chemicals out there that will wreak your liver or blood chemistry. Gloves and face mask are cheap and should already be under your kitchen sink and on your work bench! (I gave blood once, when a friend had to get a blood transfusion after absorbing too much MEK, while preparing his plane for new paint - very nasty stuff and horrible hangover, too!)

01-21-2017, 10:37 AM	#20
DocSkunk User Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 25 Thanks: 5 Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts	Well after 31 days soaking in Liquid Wrench i finally took it out and hit it with 0000 steal wool and find steel brush. I think it looks alittle better but far from over. comparing the before and after helps. I know im rubbish at this. First time doing it. Dont think i mucked it up to bad. Here are some pictures. The parts havent dried in these pictures, not sure if that will help. WARNING: LIQUID WRENCH EATS LATEX GLOVES Before: After: Before: After: Before: After: All together __________________ Just like a skunk, I spray and pray...with abit of aim. Hail Odin the All Father and Hail Tyr may they bless my weapons of war and keep my aim true. Looking for mag: SN 7887 SN 6728 Have: SN 1207 wood bottom. SN 6024