Destroyed Swiss 1900

jford · 04-12-2007, 12:39 PM

I believe what I have here is a military contract Swiss model of 1900. It is in our reference collection (I am a firearms examiner). The top of the chamber was polished down and when I hit it with a bit of acid to restore it I found the Swiss cross and "sunburst" pattern (see pictures). The grips have been turned into some sort of "target" style and for some unknown reason the front of the barrel has been turned down and the front sight removed. Very sad. Just thought some of you would like to see the torture first hand.

jford · 04-12-2007, 12:40 PM

more pics

jford · 04-12-2007, 12:48 PM

more pictures

jford · 04-12-2007, 12:51 PM

one more

Brownie · 04-12-2007, 12:59 PM

Makes one want to cry.

Pete Ebbink · 04-12-2007, 01:05 PM

Hi Jared,

Thanks for posting...too bad about the modifications.

Odd that a shooter wanting "target" grips would not have a front sight with which to acquire an accurate shooting target view.

This gun has potential for restoration if anyone wants to dump some money into it.

BTW...this gun would be considered a DWM-Swiss M1900 Commercial has it has the commercial BUG proofs and not the Military Ordnance proofs.

Dwight Gruber · 04-12-2007, 01:06 PM

Jared,

Very sad, but thanks very much for letting us see the pictures. Fyi this gun is actually a Swiss Commercial, determined by the crown/B, crown/U proof marks on the left receiver. I would expect to see a c/B, c/U, and c/G on the underside of the barrel.

For my data-gathering on these guns, could you please tell me if the grip safety is narrow (half the width of the grip strap) or wide (full-width)? Thanks again.

--Dwight

jford · 04-12-2007, 01:18 PM

My mistake, the literature I was getting my information from (2004 standard catalog of firearms) stated that the military serial number range was 2001-5000. The grip safety is of the narrow type. And yes the BUG proofs are present on the bottom of the barrel. The bottom of the barrel also has the number "172,28" What is this number?

Ron Wood · 04-12-2007, 01:31 PM

The 172,28 is the old standard for measuring gauge. So this would be the number of lead balls of the diameter of the bore (in this case 7.65mm) required to make a pound. The comma between 172 and 28 is of course the European equivalent of a decimal point.

Pete Ebbink · 04-12-2007, 01:40 PM

BUG's on the barrel are there...just a bit hard to see in the photo's lighting :

jford · 04-12-2007, 01:44 PM

picture

Pete Ebbink · 04-12-2007, 03:22 PM

Must be a day for early M1900 commercials...

Here is another on G-B :

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=69807843

This one has a Swiss replacement reinforced extractor...which is strawed...usually see those blued but not always.

Dwight Gruber · 04-13-2007, 03:47 AM

Jared,

Swiss serial numbering is clear, but not well understood. The Swiss military contract and DWM commercial series are both numbered sequentially starting with s# 1, so there is complete serial number duplication between the two series. Many published sources misunderstand the numbering, and all differently. Most do not make the differentiation between the proof mark, but simply call the guns "1900 Swiss" due to the Swiss cross-in-sunburst on the chamber. Makes it very difficult to keep a database on the pistols.

--Dwight

jford · 04-13-2007, 11:06 AM

I can see why lugers are a big collectors item. There is much to understand and probably more history behind them than any other pistol in history. Thanks for all the information. I have more of a respect for these pistols now that I know some of their history. I may just have to pick one up some day just to add to my collection.

04-12-2007, 12:39 PM	#1
jford User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Destroyed Swiss 1900 I believe what I have here is a military contract Swiss model of 1900. It is in our reference collection (I am a firearms examiner). The top of the chamber was polished down and when I hit it with a bit of acid to restore it I found the Swiss cross and "sunburst" pattern (see pictures). The grips have been turned into some sort of "target" style and for some unknown reason the front of the barrel has been turned down and the front sight removed. Very sad. Just thought some of you would like to see the torture first hand. Attached Thumbnails

04-12-2007, 12:40 PM	#2
jford User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	more pics more pics Attached Thumbnails

04-12-2007, 12:48 PM	#3
jford User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	more pictures more pictures Attached Thumbnails

04-12-2007, 12:51 PM	#4
jford User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	one more one more Attached Thumbnails

04-12-2007, 01:31 PM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,987 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,090 Times in 1,675 Posts	The 172,28 is the old standard for measuring gauge. So this would be the number of lead balls of the diameter of the bore (in this case 7.65mm) required to make a pound. The comma between 172 and 28 is of course the European equivalent of a decimal point. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

04-12-2007, 12:59 PM	#5
Brownie User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Georgia Posts: 42 Thanks: 8 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Makes one want to cry.

04-12-2007, 01:05 PM	#6
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Jared, Thanks for posting...too bad about the modifications. Odd that a shooter wanting "target" grips would not have a front sight with which to acquire an accurate shooting target view. This gun has potential for restoration if anyone wants to dump some money into it. BTW...this gun would be considered a DWM-Swiss M1900 Commercial has it has the commercial BUG proofs and not the Military Ordnance proofs.

04-12-2007, 01:06 PM	#7
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Jared, Very sad, but thanks very much for letting us see the pictures. Fyi this gun is actually a Swiss Commercial, determined by the crown/B, crown/U proof marks on the left receiver. I would expect to see a c/B, c/U, and c/G on the underside of the barrel. For my data-gathering on these guns, could you please tell me if the grip safety is narrow (half the width of the grip strap) or wide (full-width)? Thanks again. --Dwight

04-12-2007, 01:18 PM	#8
jford User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My mistake, the literature I was getting my information from (2004 standard catalog of firearms) stated that the military serial number range was 2001-5000. The grip safety is of the narrow type. And yes the BUG proofs are present on the bottom of the barrel. The bottom of the barrel also has the number "172,28" What is this number?

04-12-2007, 01:40 PM	#10
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	BUG's on the barrel are there...just a bit hard to see in the photo's lighting :

04-12-2007, 01:44 PM	#11
jford User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Backstrap and grip safety picture Attached Thumbnails

04-12-2007, 03:22 PM	#12
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Must be a day for early M1900 commercials... Here is another on G-B : http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=69807843 This one has a Swiss replacement reinforced extractor...which is strawed...usually see those blued but not always.

04-13-2007, 03:47 AM	#13
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Jared, Swiss serial numbering is clear, but not well understood. The Swiss military contract and DWM commercial series are both numbered sequentially starting with s# 1, so there is complete serial number duplication between the two series. Many published sources misunderstand the numbering, and all differently. Most do not make the differentiation between the proof mark, but simply call the guns "1900 Swiss" due to the Swiss cross-in-sunburst on the chamber. Makes it very difficult to keep a database on the pistols. --Dwight

04-13-2007, 11:06 AM	#14
jford User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I can see why lugers are a big collectors item. There is much to understand and probably more history behind them than any other pistol in history. Thanks for all the information. I have more of a respect for these pistols now that I know some of their history. I may just have to pick one up some day just to add to my collection.