handloading 9mm ammo

[Artsi]

Hi


I'm new to 9mm P08 pistol, just got my piece less than a month ago.


Am I right believing that originally the 9mm ammo around the 1st World War era was pretty lame by today's standards? Was is not like about 1000fps with a 124grain bullet?


I briefly flipped through annual 2001 issue by Guns&Ammo Magazine where they feature P08's on 5 pages. There they claim today's 9mm ammo being downloaded from the long gone days era thus resulting in feeding jams when shot in a P08 pistol. They suggest P08 owners to find +P loaded 9mm ammo to achieve a glitch free feeding.


I feel the Guns&Ammo got it wrong here.

I was advised by many local shooting enthusiasts that I'd need to seek a stronger spring to my P08 that operates the toggle assy. This way I'd avoid breaking my precious pistol since it really is built to handle only weak ammo and todays ammo is a lot hotter.


I've shot handloaded 124grain ball ammo that clocks about 900fps. I am going to use my pistol in a certain shooting sports that requires shot ammo to achieve pre-determined power level. I have to load 124gr ammo to about 1050fps. Right now I have a shortened spring from a Russian bolt action rifle. The spring measured 15 lbs/inch on a special spring compression gauge.

This spring seems to be pretty spot on for ammo at about 850-900fps. Over 950fps ammo does really make the spent cases to exit from gun in a fairly energetic way, indicating substantially increased bolt/toggle velocity before it crashes to halt at the end of it's rearward travel.


I managed to source an outlet that carries 25 lbs/inch rating springs for P08. That looks like a perfect spring for shooting beefier ammo. When operating the gun by hand one really can feel the difference. I don't expect 1050fps ammo to be able to operate the action with this 25 lb spring installed.

I reckon this spring has to be cut shorter fairly signifigantly to end up with a rating somewhere between 15 and 25 lbs/inch.


Does anyone what lb/inch rating are aftermarket springs that can be generally obtained for P08 (say from Gun Parts Corp, NY) ?


I can post an update of my experiments if anyone is interested.


- Artsi

[Hugh]

Arts;


The GUNS & AMMO article is correct. A lot of todays ammo will not function the Luger action correctly. The mainspring strengths that you cite are all too weak for Luger mainsprings, and continued use will probably damage your Luger. I suggest that you get a "Calibration Pak" from Wolff Springs (www.gunsprings.com)that contains one each: "reduced 36lb, a standard 38lb#, and an "extra power 40lb" spring, and use the one that works best in your gin with the ammo you are using. The pak also contains three "extra power" firing pin springs. Modified springs of questionable origin ahould not be used. Myself and several others on the Lugerforum have replaced the original 50+ year old springs in our "shooter" Lugers with Wolff springs and solved a number of malfunction problems.

Ok, so what bullet weight/type and muzzle velocity was used for the Luger in WWII?

[Ted]

I agree with Hugh!

[Hugh]

The only figures I have seen pertaining to early 9mm ammunition is in Datig, who states that ammo was varied, ranging in weights from 110 to 127 grains and velocities of from 1000 to 1500 fps. Maybe someone else has more detailed info.

[Frank]

The bullet weights changed with time. During the last years of World War I the bullet weight was 115 to 123 gr. During the first years of World War II the weight changed to the 97 to 102 grain range. Later, around 1942 the weight changed to 89 to 92 grains and the bullets had a sintered metal core. Sorry I don't know what the corresponding muzzle velocities were for each bullet weight.

[Kyrie]

Hi Darell,


The German WWII 123/124 grain lead cored 9 m/m Luger ammunition had a muzzle velocity of about 1140 fps. Later in the war different bullets were used (iron cored, sintered steel, etc.) as critical materials ran short, and these lighter bullets had higher muzzle velocities.


Hope this helps!


Best regards,


Kyrie