Does anyone know <img BORDER="0" src='http://boards.rennlist.com/luger/pic.gif'>

Rick K · 02-17-2001, 06:44 PM

what symbol this is behind the toggle? (DWM 1916/1920)

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Toprear.jpg

Kyrie · 02-17-2001, 06:53 PM

Hi Rick,

Alas, my eyes are not good enough to make it out even though that's a nice picture.

Best regards,

Kyrie

P.S. I have a post for you re your C/N double date, but I'm having trouble getting a picture uploaded. I'll get there eventually...

bill m · 02-17-2001, 07:11 PM

Rick, is this the same gun that you are asking about the Horizontal C/N's? I think it is. That looks like an Erfurt parts inspection proof. Your other picture shows it better. Apparently that part was once on an Erfurt gun. Not uncommon for reworked Weimar guns. I am beginning to agree that the Horizontal C/N's on the right side, which I find to be very unusual, and basically almost unknown, as this is only the third one I've heard of, could very well be a Krieghoff rework.

Rick K · 02-17-2001, 07:12 PM

Thanks Kyrie. I appreciate your input, especially with your expertise.

Rick K

Rick K · 02-17-2001, 07:18 PM

Thank you Bill! Yes, it is the same pistol. Can you tell me anything about this mark on the barrel?

Rick K

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/barrel3.jpg

Kyrie · 02-17-2001, 07:36 PM

Hi Rick,

More and more curious! That's a Revisions Commission stamp (see the photos of my 1916 Erfurt in the Owners' Corner). Also, and this may be just the angle of the photo, but that cut into the top of the barrel extension doesn't look like a cut for an Artillery rear sight. You have an unusual and interesting Luger.

Best regards,

Kyrie

Marvin · 02-17-2001, 07:38 PM

Rick,

I assume you are refering to the "RC" over Crown. This is the stamp for the Reichs Testing Commision. If a part did not meet the requirements of the Waffenamt inspector it was relegated to a recycle bin for rework or scrapping. Many of these parts did not pass for various reasons and some were good parts, but did not pass due to a tolerence being off. This small infraction would not effect the usefulness of the part, but the inspectors would not pass them as they would be held responsible for a bad pistol even if it had problems in the field. The German Government formed this Commision which could over-ride the Waffen inspector and allow the part to be used. Once this stamp was on the part, the Waffen inspector would not be held liable for any future problems. There is no problem with the pistol as far as it's ability to perform, but was not up to the high quality standards of the German Government. I have noticed that most of the probelems appear to be cosmetic. I have a 1917 Erfurt that has this stamp on the barrel, frame, breechblock, middle toggle link and the rear toggle link. The pisto is all matching too and the only problem I see is the finish on the metal is not very good.

Marvin

Rick K · 02-17-2001, 07:50 PM

Thanks Marvin. I appreciate your input greatly. I think the finish looks good for its age, but then I have nothing to compare it with.

Rick K

Walt J. · 02-17-2001, 10:04 PM

Rick,

Your barrel cut is identical to mine and I have always assumed it to be the sight cut for the LP-08. Maybe, maybe not. Think our kissin' cousin Lugers are getting closer to twins. Don't have the Erfurt crown on the toggle that Bill mentions may be on yours and my crown RC is on the rear toggle instead of the barrel, but other than that, these two are identical. They went through the same process somehow, somewhere, sometime to pick up those right side lazy N's.

Walt

bill m · 02-17-2001, 10:25 PM

Hi Walt,

Got some stuff mixed up on my reply on the other post about the horizontal C/N's, but for the most part they were right. Still thinking on it, -- read the post down there and tell me what you think, please.

02-18-2001, 09:33 AM

Rick, Your recent photos tell the tale. The marks on the left side of barrel and rear of the toggle are Imperial (probably Erfurt) inspectors marks (crown over a letter that identifies a specific inspector). Also, since your receiver is "notched" just aft of the barrel, this was original for the Artillery rear sight to lay down into, shows me that your pistol was originally a LPO8, that was reworked after WW1 into a 4" with a normal fixed sight rear toggle link. What I can't identify are the faint markings just forward of the DWM on your mid link? Can you do a close-up of this?

Rick K · 02-18-2001, 12:46 PM

Tom, do you mean on the right side of the mid link? That's a crown N. There is no mark forward of the DWM on top of the mid link. Just the number 52 behind it.

02-17-2001, 06:44 PM	#1
Rick K User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Cochran, GA Posts: 305 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Does anyone know what symbol this is behind the toggle? (DWM 1916/1920) http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Toprear.jpg

02-17-2001, 06:53 PM	#2
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Re: Does anyone know Hi Rick, Alas, my eyes are not good enough to make it out even though that's a nice picture. Best regards, Kyrie P.S. I have a post for you re your C/N double date, but I'm having trouble getting a picture uploaded. I'll get there eventually...

02-17-2001, 07:11 PM	#3
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Does anyone know Rick, is this the same gun that you are asking about the Horizontal C/N's? I think it is. That looks like an Erfurt parts inspection proof. Your other picture shows it better. Apparently that part was once on an Erfurt gun. Not uncommon for reworked Weimar guns. I am beginning to agree that the Horizontal C/N's on the right side, which I find to be very unusual, and basically almost unknown, as this is only the third one I've heard of, could very well be a Krieghoff rework.

02-17-2001, 07:12 PM	#4
Rick K User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Cochran, GA Posts: 305 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Does anyone know Thanks Kyrie. I appreciate your input, especially with your expertise. Rick K

02-17-2001, 07:18 PM	#5
Rick K User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Cochran, GA Posts: 305 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Does anyone know Thank you Bill! Yes, it is the same pistol. Can you tell me anything about this mark on the barrel? Rick K http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/barrel3.jpg

02-17-2001, 07:36 PM	#6
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Re: Does anyone know Hi Rick, More and more curious! That's a Revisions Commission stamp (see the photos of my 1916 Erfurt in the Owners' Corner). Also, and this may be just the angle of the photo, but that cut into the top of the barrel extension doesn't look like a cut for an Artillery rear sight. You have an unusual and interesting Luger. Best regards, Kyrie

02-17-2001, 07:38 PM	#7
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Does anyone know Rick, I assume you are refering to the "RC" over Crown. This is the stamp for the Reichs Testing Commision. If a part did not meet the requirements of the Waffenamt inspector it was relegated to a recycle bin for rework or scrapping. Many of these parts did not pass for various reasons and some were good parts, but did not pass due to a tolerence being off. This small infraction would not effect the usefulness of the part, but the inspectors would not pass them as they would be held responsible for a bad pistol even if it had problems in the field. The German Government formed this Commision which could over-ride the Waffen inspector and allow the part to be used. Once this stamp was on the part, the Waffen inspector would not be held liable for any future problems. There is no problem with the pistol as far as it's ability to perform, but was not up to the high quality standards of the German Government. I have noticed that most of the probelems appear to be cosmetic. I have a 1917 Erfurt that has this stamp on the barrel, frame, breechblock, middle toggle link and the rear toggle link. The pisto is all matching too and the only problem I see is the finish on the metal is not very good. Marvin

02-17-2001, 07:50 PM	#8
Rick K User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Cochran, GA Posts: 305 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Does anyone know Thanks Marvin. I appreciate your input greatly. I think the finish looks good for its age, but then I have nothing to compare it with. Rick K

02-17-2001, 10:04 PM	#9
Walt J. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New Caney, Texas Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Does anyone know Rick, Your barrel cut is identical to mine and I have always assumed it to be the sight cut for the LP-08. Maybe, maybe not. Think our kissin' cousin Lugers are getting closer to twins. Don't have the Erfurt crown on the toggle that Bill mentions may be on yours and my crown RC is on the rear toggle instead of the barrel, but other than that, these two are identical. They went through the same process somehow, somewhere, sometime to pick up those right side lazy N's. Walt

02-17-2001, 10:25 PM	#10
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Does anyone know Hi Walt, Got some stuff mixed up on my reply on the other post about the horizontal C/N's, but for the most part they were right. Still thinking on it, -- read the post down there and tell me what you think, please.

02-18-2001, 09:33 AM	#11
tom heller Guest Posts: n/a	Re: I know Rick, Your recent photos tell the tale. The marks on the left side of barrel and rear of the toggle are Imperial (probably Erfurt) inspectors marks (crown over a letter that identifies a specific inspector). Also, since your receiver is "notched" just aft of the barrel, this was original for the Artillery rear sight to lay down into, shows me that your pistol was originally a LPO8, that was reworked after WW1 into a 4" with a normal fixed sight rear toggle link. What I can't identify are the faint markings just forward of the DWM on your mid link? Can you do a close-up of this?

02-18-2001, 12:46 PM	#12
Rick K User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Cochran, GA Posts: 305 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: I know Tom, do you mean on the right side of the mid link? That's a crown N. There is no mark forward of the DWM on top of the mid link. Just the number 52 behind it.