45 cal Luger

Does anyone know the disposition of the 45 cal Luger that was to be forthcoming from Krausewerk? The Krausewerk site appears to be abandoned. Is this the case?

[Russ]

mike is still working on them. i have seen 2 or 3 of them. they are works of art.

Be happy when he finishes development of them so that I can purchase one. Reverse engineering should not take too long with a project such as a handgun.

[Johnny Peppers]

I have heard that the original projected price of $10,000 has already escalated to the $12,500/15,000 range. That will buy several nice original Lugers.

By the way, an original .45 cal. Luger is on display at the Norton Gallery in Shreveport, Louisiana.

[Russ]

when there is over 500 machining processes in just the frame plus the research that is involved. it will take a while to do.

[Dok]

Are you referring to an original Georg Luger .45 cal Luger? There is only one. Or did I misinterpret your posting?

On conventional machinery, the process is time consuming. Using CNC mills and lathes reduces the process to nothing at all. Designing the process on a CAD/CAM system is a piece of cake. The project should take little time.

[Johnny Peppers]

If you got the idea that there was only one original .45 cal Luger, it could only have come from the Guns & Ammo article of some 5 or 6 years ago. The .45 cal Luger in the Norton Gallery was purchased by Mr. Norton from Harry Jones. In some of his writings Harry Jones tells about himself and Mr. Norton taking the pistol out and running a box of ammo through it. The pistol is pictured on page 381 or Scott Meadow's "US MILITARY AUTOMATIC PISTOLS". The pistol has a commercial proof, but also has the GL proof on the toggle.

[Dok]

I got my information from Kenyon's "Lugers At Random" in which it states that only two were made, and one (use for the test) was probably trashed. Were others made at a later date? I was unaware of this.

[Johnny Peppers]

Charles Kenyon's book "LUGERS AT RANDOM" is a great book, but like all others it cannot hope to remain current or contain all information. New information is continually coming out, and there is a very great possibility that Mr. Kenyon was not aware of this pistol when he published his book. Scott Meadows is a friend of mine, and even though he as been a collector and researcher of US military pistols for many years he was not aware of the .45 Luger in the Norton Gallery until I told him of it's existence.

Mr. Norton was an early Louisiana oilman, and in addition to collection Remington and Russell paintings and bronzes, early American silver service, and early art of the west, he, collected firearms. If you are ever close to the Shreveport, Louisiana area which is approximately 180 miles east of Dallas, the gallery is well worth an hour or two of your time.

[Dok]

I've learned something tonight, and here I thought there was only one .45 Luger left in the world... WOW. Well thank you for enlightening me. I'm off now, have a good night.

[G.T.]

I think it is also interesting that the 45 luger was tuned to a diet of special 45 ammo, made in Germany......Just think what a box of this would be worth! till...later...G.T.

[Dok]

Do we know what the serial number is... Kenyon states that serial number "1" has never surfaced, is this 1 or 3 or what? Does anyone know?


Good Night.

[Johnny Peppers]

I don't believe that the curator of the Norton Gallery had any idea of the rarity of the .45 cal. Luger, and when it was finally put in a display case of it's own, the serial number could not be seen. It is reported to be serial number 3, and this is the number indicated in Scott's book.

[Hugh]

Here is a quote from THE LUGER STORY by John Walter, page 118:


"Though the progress of the American trials is well documented, controversy still surrounds the .45 Lugers. Work apparently began in the late summer of 1906, when 5000 cartridges were sent to Luger from Frankford Arsenal. The pistols were completed late in February 1907, two of them arriving at Springfield Armory some time prior to 28th March. One gun, believed to have been no. 1, was put through the trials whilst no. 2 was retained for examination. The latter still exists, thought he fate of its companion is unknown.


But where are the others? And, if so, how many? Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken clearly made more than two, as at least one would have been retained in Germany as a safeguard against the loss of the guns despatched to the USA; coincidentally, .45 Luger no. 4 is said to have been found in Germany in 1945 and taken to the USA as a souvenir. Another example, apparently numbered '4', was pictured in LUGER. The late August Weiss credited his predecessor, Heinrich Hoffmann, with a statement that "no more than six" 45 calibre guns had been made.


......Harry Jones pictured two surviving guns in the revised edition of LUGER VARIATIONS, commenting that the second survivor was fired 150 times in 1960 without a single stoppage. Unfortunately for Luger and DWM, the ammunition used in 1907 was not as reliable!

[Dok]

For me it's like finding buried teasure! I believed there WAS only one! And I sorta "challenged" Johnny Peppers last night on his comment of "an" original, only to find out that indeed there may be others! I am going to try to get some more info on this one in Shreveport, LA, with a view to postiung that info on our web site. If anyone has quotes from books or reference material, please send it to me, and I'll include it on the page.

To the best of my recollection, but I don't recall were I saw it, there were 5 M1907 45acp luger made by DWM for testing. Two were destroyed in the test, two are currently still known to exist. The third? This is what makes luger collecting a real treasure hunt. I personally respect Mike Krause's talent and energy in attempting this recreation, but for the price, I think I'd rather have 3 of John Martz's 45s, that I know would function flawlessly and are also a thing of beauty.

[Jesse]

I wish

[Dok]

[Patrick]

... and there�´s an Austrian who makes them (at a price). His don�´t have to be top loaded. Patrick