Apparently my C&R isn't good enough...

135C/C · 03-08-2010, 08:57 PM

Sent payment and a signed copy of my C&R to a pawnbroker in Arkansas for a Luger and got an e-mail saying they don't accept C&R's and I need to "fax another FFL"

Not too big a deal as I know a guy with an 01 FFL that only charges $20 for transfers, but still......it IS an extra $20 and I AM a bit annoyed that they won't accept a legitimate C&R license......I just don't get it.

Has anybody else had an issue like this, and if so, were you able to convince them to accept your C&R? I'll give them a call tomorrow and see if they'll reconsider, but I really doubt that will get me anything.

Edward Tinker · 03-08-2010, 09:20 PM

You can quote them the pages in the ATF book that says that a FFL 03 is legal.

or tell him that you'll send a copy of your drivers license as proof.

And yes, I have faced this 3 or 5 times, primarily from Texas dealers, but also from a dealer in other states a couple of times...

Ron Smith · 03-08-2010, 09:55 PM

A lot of dealer's take issue with a C&R. They consider C&Rs as depriving them of their transfer fees. So they refuse to accept them under any circumstances. Legally they have the right to do so, but it's a CS thing to do IMO.

135C/C · 03-09-2010, 09:25 PM

Well, I got my answer:

"it has always been my store policy not to accept curio and relics, keeps us
from possiblility of mistakes, sorry for your inconvenience will be glad to
relist gun if you do not wan't to purchase...."

This is after sending him a respectful, well written e-mail saying that considering the auction didn't specifically say "No C&R", I assumed a C&R would be good for a 92 year old gun, that I would be more than happy to send him a copy of my D.L. to confirm the address and even my Military Retiree I.D. and my current D.O.D. employee I.D. if he wanted.

It seems a bit silly/pathetic that he's fraid of making a mistake with a transaction as straightforward as this.

It's a 1918 DWM (w/ police safety sear installed), that looks to be in very good shape, to my admittedly novice eye the grips appear to NOT be aftermarket, supposedly matching numbers (not sure if it includes the grips), and comes with a fair condition police holster (converted from military), takedown/loading tool and 2 magazines. I think I got a pretty good deal for $900, but am considering whether or not to tell him "forget it" and just get my money back out of principle.

Don't know.....I'll have to sleep on it I guess

lugerholsterrepair · 03-09-2010, 10:15 PM

Ron, The guy's a bonehead and one excuse is as good as another. I am with you..it's my first inclanation to tell the guy to nick off. On the other hand..if you feel it's something you want and it's a reasonable deal..Might be something to mull over. You could always ask him to fork over the 20 bucks it's going to cost since his description didn't prohibit C&R's. Put's it on him for not accepting. If he is reluctant, say you'll split it with him. If he won't do that ...My principle might come back into play.

A lot of dealer's take issue with a C&R. They consider C&Rs as depriving them of their transfer fees. So they refuse to accept them under any circumstances. Legally they have the right to do so, but it's a CS thing to do IMO.
I agree and I disagree...If this were in front of Judge Judy..she might say both of you entered into a contract. Ron has a legal and legitimate method to accept the pistol. The seller refuses to accept this legal method. Policy he says. Judge Judy says if it's Policy..where is it in the contract? Seller says..it's hanging on my shop wall. Judge Judy says judgement for the plaintiff.

Good Luck!

Jerry Burney

Jerry Burney

Edward Tinker · 03-09-2010, 10:33 PM

well, heres a story; was home on leave and went to a yard sale and they had a bunch (maybe 10-15) Japanese plates, pre-war and post war. They wanted a $1.00 a plate, I offered 50 cents each and he acted offended and said no. I left kinda in a huff (to myself). Later thinking about it, it was silly; they were worth $5 each at that time; I shouldn't have been so cheap.

My point is; for even $950, a nice police luger with a decent holster, take down tool and 2 mags, I would be selling for $1200-$1300 and getting it....

alvin · 03-10-2010, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 135C/C

I think I got a pretty good deal for $900

I agree with Ed. After all, you feel the price is good, and the seller does not feel losing your transaction being a big deal -- he could easily sell it to someone else, probably at higher price.

No reason to play emotionally on this. Pay $20 to a dealer to transfer if you like it.

Norme · 03-10-2010, 08:24 AM

I'm with Ed and Alvin. Sometimes you just have to hold your nose and do the deal. Remember, it's not personal, it's business. Regards, Norm

135C/C · 03-10-2010, 05:38 PM

I'm thinking you guys hit it on the head by guessing they don't take C&R's just to make it difficult on those that they think are costing "real" FFL's business.

Called them up and they said there was "a lot of checks and extra paperwork" they had to go through for a C&R. I tried telling him otherwise until I was blue in the face. I asked him why they didn't state "No C&R's" on the auction and he claimed they had "never seen one before". I ended the conversation being that I couldn't "hold my watch up" any higher. Like I said before, it looks like a good deal so I held my nose, forced the bile back down, and told them to ship it. The FFL I use in town couldn't believe their "stuff" either and used a few of the same adjectives I did in referring to the seller.

Yet ..........they shipped the gun U.S. Mail "Priority"........doesn't sound like they know much at all about the law when it comes to C&R's does it (that was sarcasm BTW)?

They go by "unitedpawn" on GunBroker and they're out of Jonesboro, Arkansas for future reference.

...okay, I'm done...just had to get that off my chest. I'll post pics in the "Military" forum when I get it for opinions on "how I did".

jonnyc · 03-10-2010, 07:39 PM

I believe it is legal for an 01 to send a pistol to another 01 via the USPS.

135C/C · 03-10-2010, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnyc

I believe it is legal for an 01 to send a pistol to another 01 via the USPS.

I thought that the ONLY time a handgun could be shipped through U.S. mail was if it was a C&R regardless of whether or not it was from an 01 to another 01......perhaps I was wrong.

........I still stand by my opinion of unitedpawn being full of "it" though

lew1 · 03-11-2010, 08:15 AM

An 01 can ship any hand gun new or old - to another 01.

Have no problems with you opinion of unitedpawn

135C/C · 03-13-2010, 09:55 PM

Well, I'm glad I went ahead with the purchase. I got it today and WOW!

I've never been one to grade finishes in %, but I'd call the finish a strong "very good" and definitely not a re-blue, barrel is in at least "good" shape (bright with more rifleing than a 92 year old gun should have...in my opinion at least), grips appear to be original and are faintly stamped "05" (not sure if the stamp is "real" or not, and both magazines ("1" and "2") match the gun's serial #.

I think I did good and will try to take post some pics of it in the "Military" forum tomorrow to get a few second opinions and show it off.

03-08-2010, 08:57 PM	#1
135C/C User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Central Kansas Posts: 18 Thanks: 14 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Apparently my C&R isn't good enough... Sent payment and a signed copy of my C&R to a pawnbroker in Arkansas for a Luger and got an e-mail saying they don't accept C&R's and I need to "fax another FFL" Not too big a deal as I know a guy with an 01 FFL that only charges $20 for transfers, but still......it IS an extra $20 and I AM a bit annoyed that they won't accept a legitimate C&R license......I just don't get it. Has anybody else had an issue like this, and if so, were you able to convince them to accept your C&R? I'll give them a call tomorrow and see if they'll reconsider, but I really doubt that will get me anything.

03-08-2010, 09:20 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	You can quote them the pages in the ATF book that says that a FFL 03 is legal. or tell him that you'll send a copy of your drivers license as proof. And yes, I have faced this 3 or 5 times, primarily from Texas dealers, but also from a dealer in other states a couple of times... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-08-2010, 09:55 PM	#3
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	A lot of dealer's take issue with a C&R. They consider C&Rs as depriving them of their transfer fees. So they refuse to accept them under any circumstances. Legally they have the right to do so, but it's a CS thing to do IMO. __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

03-09-2010, 10:15 PM	#5
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Ron, The guy's a bonehead and one excuse is as good as another. I am with you..it's my first inclanation to tell the guy to nick off. On the other hand..if you feel it's something you want and it's a reasonable deal..Might be something to mull over. You could always ask him to fork over the 20 bucks it's going to cost since his description didn't prohibit C&R's. Put's it on him for not accepting. If he is reluctant, say you'll split it with him. If he won't do that ...My principle might come back into play. A lot of dealer's take issue with a C&R. They consider C&Rs as depriving them of their transfer fees. So they refuse to accept them under any circumstances. Legally they have the right to do so, but it's a CS thing to do IMO. I agree and I disagree...If this were in front of Judge Judy..she might say both of you entered into a contract. Ron has a legal and legitimate method to accept the pistol. The seller refuses to accept this legal method. Policy he says. Judge Judy says if it's Policy..where is it in the contract? Seller says..it's hanging on my shop wall. Judge Judy says judgement for the plaintiff. Good Luck! Jerry Burney Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-09-2010, 10:33 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	well, heres a story; was home on leave and went to a yard sale and they had a bunch (maybe 10-15) Japanese plates, pre-war and post war. They wanted a $1.00 a plate, I offered 50 cents each and he acted offended and said no. I left kinda in a huff (to myself). Later thinking about it, it was silly; they were worth $5 each at that time; I shouldn't have been so cheap. My point is; for even $950, a nice police luger with a decent holster, take down tool and 2 mags, I would be selling for $1200-$1300 and getting it.... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-09-2010, 09:25 PM	#4
135C/C User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Central Kansas Posts: 18 Thanks: 14 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well, I got my answer: "it has always been my store policy not to accept curio and relics, keeps us from possiblility of mistakes, sorry for your inconvenience will be glad to relist gun if you do not wan't to purchase...." This is after sending him a respectful, well written e-mail saying that considering the auction didn't specifically say "No C&R", I assumed a C&R would be good for a 92 year old gun, that I would be more than happy to send him a copy of my D.L. to confirm the address and even my Military Retiree I.D. and my current D.O.D. employee I.D. if he wanted. It seems a bit silly/pathetic that he's fraid of making a mistake with a transaction as straightforward as this. It's a 1918 DWM (w/ police safety sear installed), that looks to be in very good shape, to my admittedly novice eye the grips appear to NOT be aftermarket, supposedly matching numbers (not sure if it includes the grips), and comes with a fair condition police holster (converted from military), takedown/loading tool and 2 magazines. I think I got a pretty good deal for $900, but am considering whether or not to tell him "forget it" and just get my money back out of principle. Don't know.....I'll have to sleep on it I guess

03-10-2010, 08:24 AM	#8
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,414 Thanks: 224 Thanked 2,591 Times in 930 Posts	I'm with Ed and Alvin. Sometimes you just have to hold your nose and do the deal. Remember, it's not personal, it's business. Regards, Norm

03-10-2010, 05:38 PM	#9
135C/C User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Central Kansas Posts: 18 Thanks: 14 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'm thinking you guys hit it on the head by guessing they don't take C&R's just to make it difficult on those that they think are costing "real" FFL's business. Called them up and they said there was "a lot of checks and extra paperwork" they had to go through for a C&R. I tried telling him otherwise until I was blue in the face. I asked him why they didn't state "No C&R's" on the auction and he claimed they had "never seen one before". I ended the conversation being that I couldn't "hold my watch up" any higher. Like I said before, it looks like a good deal so I held my nose, forced the bile back down, and told them to ship it. The FFL I use in town couldn't believe their "stuff" either and used a few of the same adjectives I did in referring to the seller. Yet ..........they shipped the gun U.S. Mail "Priority"........doesn't sound like they know much at all about the law when it comes to C&R's does it (that was sarcasm BTW)? They go by "unitedpawn" on GunBroker and they're out of Jonesboro, Arkansas for future reference. ...okay, I'm done...just had to get that off my chest. I'll post pics in the "Military" forum when I get it for opinions on "how I did".

03-10-2010, 07:39 PM	#10
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	I believe it is legal for an 01 to send a pistol to another 01 via the USPS.

03-11-2010, 08:15 AM	#12
lew1 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,108 Thanks: 82 Thanked 204 Times in 112 Posts	An 01 can ship any hand gun new or old - to another 01. Have no problems with you opinion of unitedpawn __________________ charlie

03-13-2010, 09:55 PM	#13
135C/C User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Central Kansas Posts: 18 Thanks: 14 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well, I'm glad I went ahead with the purchase. I got it today and WOW! I've never been one to grade finishes in %, but I'd call the finish a strong "very good" and definitely not a re-blue, barrel is in at least "good" shape (bright with more rifleing than a 92 year old gun should have...in my opinion at least), grips appear to be original and are faintly stamped "05" (not sure if the stamp is "real" or not, and both magazines ("1" and "2") match the gun's serial #. I think I did good and will try to take post some pics of it in the "Military" forum tomorrow to get a few second opinions and show it off.