Question on the 06/24 W+F Bern Luger ??

Dean762 · 11-01-2005, 08:15 PM

Bobba mentions that the 2nd and 3rd variation the 06/24 incorporated a 'simplified" breechblock without the step . It provided no pics of this modification. I am looking at the purchase of a 3rd variation gun serial # 300XX with the blued interior, and updated sideplate but upon inspection of and comparison with the breechblock of my 1st variation gun serial # 199XX I can see no difference. Bobba does say that this modfication may or may not be present so its possible that this gun may have still used the old style breechblock. In any case I would be interested in being able to determine the difference between the two for future reference. Any assistance is appreciated.

Regards to all !

Dean

Pete Ebbink · 11-02-2005, 11:56 AM

Hi Dean,

I checked my other 5-6 Swiss lugers books and no photo shows this trait that Bobba mentions...

He may be correct that this feature was used transitionally...becoming fully adopted in the 24/29 transitional prototypes and finally in the M1929 model.

As long as the breechblock you are looking at has the last 2 or 3 digits of the serial number stamped along its left side (usually with a little Swiss cross inspection mark), you should be okay...

This may be only a WAG on my part, but it might also be possible that Bobba observed some lugers that were repaired and had M1929 breechblocks arsenal-replaced...maybe misleading him to the conclusion of a "variation" that may not have originally existed. I have no proof of this speculation...but it might account for the somewhat rarity of the plain breechblock appearing on the M1906 W+F Bern model...and the lack of photos in the Swiss luger books.

Dean762 · 11-02-2005, 02:37 PM

I think your right Pete. This is such an odd ball variation that Datig and Hausler dont even mention it in thier books. They only refer to the updated sideplate and I think one of them refers to the later 06/24s being dip blued rather than rust blued so the interiors are no longer in the white but blued with the rest of the gun. I compared the breechblock in one of my 29s to the one mentioned in my post above and I can see that the sides are smooth rather than the two milled grooves on the 06/24. I am assuming that this is what Bobba is referring to but am still not positive. In any case Im not going to sweat it and I doubt that many other collectors would either. This breechblock is correctly serialed to the gun. Im going to look at the gun again tommorow and if I decide to pick it up I will send you some pics.

Regards !

Dean

Pete Ebbink · 11-02-2005, 06:39 PM

Dean,

If convenient...take one of your M1929 breechblocks with you to the gun shop for a side-by-side comparison...

I will be happy to post photos for you, if you bring this one home. Just send them to me and I will get them posted...

pisto · 11-08-2005, 09:19 AM

Is Bobba telling the serial number changing rust blued into dip blued ?
Do you can confirm any rust blued interiour surfaces? My 06/24 1rst and 2nd generation are all dip blued - range is around 23 xxx as far as I can remember right now!

pisto · 11-08-2005, 09:20 AM

Is Bobba telling the serial number changing with that features:
rust blued / dip blued ?
Do you can confirm any rust blued interiour surfaces? My 06/24 1rst and 2nd generation are all dip blued - range is around 23 xxx as far as I can remember right now!

Pete Ebbink · 11-08-2005, 12:02 PM

Hi Rolland,

I think Bobba mentiones the change occured in the ~ 27000 serial number...I imagine there will be someoverlap of features for several 100's of luger around # 27xxx.

The earlier rust blued lugers have the "in the white" interior. The salt blued (dipped...) lugers are completely blue along all interior surfaces.

If your 1st. generation '24 Bern is all blued inside, it might be arsenal refinished...??? If your 2nd. generation in the # 23xxx serial has the "new type" trigger plate, this is quite early to have the new tirgger plate appear. Might your luger be a 1st. generation with a different trigger plate added by the arsenal at some time...?

pisto · 11-09-2005, 10:00 AM

Pete, have recently checked the serial numbers, I ve been talking about:
06/24 Bern: #206xx
#214xx
both rust blued

and 06/24 Bern
2nd Generation with alternated sideplate
#301xx
dip blued

have not taken out them for a while, therefore I was not shure about the blueing

Fredo · 12-05-2005, 04:16 PM

Hi mine has a S/N 27958, Side Plate 2nd generation and was delivered with only one magazine. Bobb's said that 3rd generation started with S/N 27501. Post you picture of the inside, may it's one of those 3rd genration
Bye

Pete Ebbink · 12-05-2005, 04:25 PM

Fredo,

We always love seeing photos of entire Swiss lugers as well...

Could you post some photos for everyone's enjoyment...?

Fredo · 12-05-2005, 04:28 PM

some pics of the entire gun

Fredo · 12-05-2005, 04:29 PM

some more

Pete Ebbink · 12-06-2005, 02:05 PM

Hi Fredo,

Very beautiful luger...thanks for posting the photos !

On your early-type side plate, does it have the last 2 or 3 digits of the gun's serial number stamped along the bottom edge of the side plate ? Do those numbers match your luger's serial ?

I have typically seen the blued interior with the new style side plate (with the taller "island") on the guns I have seen in peron.

But the transition from the old-to-new style side plate and the switch from rust bluing (with "in the white" interior) to salt bluing (with dipped, blued interiors) may not have occured concurrent with each other and may have been gradually phased in as available parts in stock were used up.

11-01-2005, 08:15 PM	#1
Dean762 User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 72 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Question on the 06/24 W+F Bern Luger ?? Bobba mentions that the 2nd and 3rd variation the 06/24 incorporated a 'simplified" breechblock without the step . It provided no pics of this modification. I am looking at the purchase of a 3rd variation gun serial # 300XX with the blued interior, and updated sideplate but upon inspection of and comparison with the breechblock of my 1st variation gun serial # 199XX I can see no difference. Bobba does say that this modfication may or may not be present so its possible that this gun may have still used the old style breechblock. In any case I would be interested in being able to determine the difference between the two for future reference. Any assistance is appreciated. Regards to all ! Dean

12-05-2005, 04:16 PM	#9
Fredo User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lausanne/Switzerland Posts: 47 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi mine has a S/N 27958, Side Plate 2nd generation and was delivered with only one magazine. Bobb's said that 3rd generation started with S/N 27501. Post you picture of the inside, may it's one of those 3rd genration Bye Attached Thumbnails

12-05-2005, 04:28 PM	#11
Fredo User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lausanne/Switzerland Posts: 47 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	some pics of the entire gun Attached Thumbnails

12-05-2005, 04:29 PM	#12
Fredo User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lausanne/Switzerland Posts: 47 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	some more Attached Thumbnails

11-02-2005, 11:56 AM	#2
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Dean, I checked my other 5-6 Swiss lugers books and no photo shows this trait that Bobba mentions... He may be correct that this feature was used transitionally...becoming fully adopted in the 24/29 transitional prototypes and finally in the M1929 model. As long as the breechblock you are looking at has the last 2 or 3 digits of the serial number stamped along its left side (usually with a little Swiss cross inspection mark), you should be okay... This may be only a WAG on my part, but it might also be possible that Bobba observed some lugers that were repaired and had M1929 breechblocks arsenal-replaced...maybe misleading him to the conclusion of a "variation" that may not have originally existed. I have no proof of this speculation...but it might account for the somewhat rarity of the plain breechblock appearing on the M1906 W+F Bern model...and the lack of photos in the Swiss luger books.

11-02-2005, 02:37 PM	#3
Dean762 User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 72 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I think your right Pete. This is such an odd ball variation that Datig and Hausler dont even mention it in thier books. They only refer to the updated sideplate and I think one of them refers to the later 06/24s being dip blued rather than rust blued so the interiors are no longer in the white but blued with the rest of the gun. I compared the breechblock in one of my 29s to the one mentioned in my post above and I can see that the sides are smooth rather than the two milled grooves on the 06/24. I am assuming that this is what Bobba is referring to but am still not positive. In any case Im not going to sweat it and I doubt that many other collectors would either. This breechblock is correctly serialed to the gun. Im going to look at the gun again tommorow and if I decide to pick it up I will send you some pics. Regards ! Dean

11-02-2005, 06:39 PM	#4
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Dean, If convenient...take one of your M1929 breechblocks with you to the gun shop for a side-by-side comparison... I will be happy to post photos for you, if you bring this one home. Just send them to me and I will get them posted...

11-08-2005, 09:19 AM	#5
pisto User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 228 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Is Bobba telling the serial number changing rust blued into dip blued ? Do you can confirm any rust blued interiour surfaces? My 06/24 1rst and 2nd generation are all dip blued - range is around 23 xxx as far as I can remember right now!

11-08-2005, 09:20 AM	#6
pisto User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 228 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Is Bobba telling the serial number changing with that features: rust blued / dip blued ? Do you can confirm any rust blued interiour surfaces? My 06/24 1rst and 2nd generation are all dip blued - range is around 23 xxx as far as I can remember right now!

11-08-2005, 12:02 PM	#7
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Rolland, I think Bobba mentiones the change occured in the ~ 27000 serial number...I imagine there will be someoverlap of features for several 100's of luger around # 27xxx. The earlier rust blued lugers have the "in the white" interior. The salt blued (dipped...) lugers are completely blue along all interior surfaces. If your 1st. generation '24 Bern is all blued inside, it might be arsenal refinished...??? If your 2nd. generation in the # 23xxx serial has the "new type" trigger plate, this is quite early to have the new tirgger plate appear. Might your luger be a 1st. generation with a different trigger plate added by the arsenal at some time...?

11-09-2005, 10:00 AM	#8
pisto User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 228 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Pete, have recently checked the serial numbers, I ve been talking about: 06/24 Bern: #206xx #214xx both rust blued and 06/24 Bern 2nd Generation with alternated sideplate #301xx dip blued have not taken out them for a while, therefore I was not shure about the blueing

12-05-2005, 04:25 PM	#10
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Fredo, We always love seeing photos of entire Swiss lugers as well... Could you post some photos for everyone's enjoyment...?

12-06-2005, 02:05 PM	#13
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Fredo, Very beautiful luger...thanks for posting the photos ! On your early-type side plate, does it have the last 2 or 3 digits of the gun's serial number stamped along the bottom edge of the side plate ? Do those numbers match your luger's serial ? I have typically seen the blued interior with the new style side plate (with the taller "island") on the guns I have seen in peron. But the transition from the old-to-new style side plate and the switch from rust bluing (with "in the white" interior) to salt bluing (with dipped, blued interiors) may not have occured concurrent with each other and may have been gradually phased in as available parts in stock were used up.