"Black Widow" Grips On Auction...

Pete Ebbink · 12-27-2002, 08:45 PM

Another pair on auction :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...item=751431343

Will be curious to see how high this pair gavels down for...

Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Pete Ebbink · 01-05-2003, 09:39 PM

Gavel down at $ 160.00 for these BW grips...

Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Frank · 01-05-2003, 11:24 PM

Pete, now the real question. Are they Legit WWII Luger Grips? I asked the seller to provide photos of the threaded holes on the backside of each grip. No response!!!!

I have seen fake grips that have the correct outside appearance and even holes on the backside. They, however are not threaded. I'm sure they will get around to it some day soon.

I hope they are real for the buyer's sake!!

[img]confused.gif[/img]

Dwight Gruber · 01-06-2003, 02:30 AM

Frank,

I have a pair of the ugliest, oiliest, shiniest fake BW grips you have ever seen. The holes on the backside are threaded, and they have the fine scribe line between the grip outlines and the diamond checkering. These were not even marketed to me as originals, I just needed cheap pair of grips quick one day and they happened to be on the table.

Those folks are way ahead of us.

--Dwight

Frank · 01-06-2003, 08:34 AM

Dwight, the only saving visual, besides the non-threaded holes were the air holes (bubbles) all over the back surface. If the fakers fix those problem. we are going to have a difficult time telling the difference, at least in photos. The only other way I can think of, is with a chemical analysis (really costly)

[img]mad.gif[/img]

Dwight Gruber · 01-06-2003, 10:28 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Frank:
<strong>The only other way I can think of, is with a chemical analysis (really costly)</strong><hr></blockquote>

I would guess that a sample of bakelite and a sample of plastic would burn differently...??

--Dwight

Edward Tinker · 01-06-2003, 11:19 AM

Bakelite has a distinctive odor to it. I talked to my Dad and he had this information saved on his computer [img]smile.gif[/img]

http://www.mi-brew.com/brownies/expa...elitetest.html

Essentially it has this tho:

[quote]The Rub Test: This tests relies a great deal on the sense of smell. The surface of the object in question is rubbed with a clean, dry finger. Rub until you get good friction and feel heat being generated. Then, smell the area you rubbed. The bakelite odor has a chemical smell like formaldehyde.

The Hot Water Test: Again, this test relies on how good your sense of smell is. Heat some water close to the boiling point, and place a part of the object in the hot water for a moment and remove. Check for the characteristic smell.

The Hot Needle Test: This test can be very distructive if not done carefully, and a person can get burned, so be careful! Heat a sewing needle to the point that it is red hot. Choose an out of the way spot on the item and touch the needle for only a second to the surface. The bakelite smell should be detectable. It is also thought that by observing whether or not the needle penetrates the surface of the object can be used to determine if the object is bakelite. In theory, bakelite should not be effected by heat, so the needle should not melt at the point it touches the surface.<hr></blockquote>

John Sabato · 01-13-2003, 11:20 AM

Here is a pair of Black bakelite grips that appear to have been original that gaveled for only $76.01...

quite a disparity in what these grips go for...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...item=753161384

Frank · 01-13-2003, 01:39 PM

Hey John, I saw those grips on ebay and they look fake to me. I don't see anything that appears to be threaded holes on the back side!! Only shiny bottom circles!! <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" />

tracyp · 01-13-2003, 02:12 PM

They look fake to me. One of the grips has 3 holes. I would need better pictures, but the coloring doesn't look right.

John Sabato · 01-13-2003, 04:20 PM

You guys are right. The photos were lousy, but at high magnification it was "possible" that the the shiny spots could contain a threaded hole...

Perhaps the buyer is a forum member and can tell us...

12-27-2002, 08:45 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	"Black Widow" Grips On Auction... Another pair on auction : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...item=751431343 Will be curious to see how high this pair gavels down for... Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

01-06-2003, 11:19 AM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Bakelite has a distinctive odor to it. I talked to my Dad and he had this information saved on his computer [img]smile.gif[/img] http://www.mi-brew.com/brownies/expa...elitetest.html Essentially it has this tho: [quote]The Rub Test: This tests relies a great deal on the sense of smell. The surface of the object in question is rubbed with a clean, dry finger. Rub until you get good friction and feel heat being generated. Then, smell the area you rubbed. The bakelite odor has a chemical smell like formaldehyde. The Hot Water Test: Again, this test relies on how good your sense of smell is. Heat some water close to the boiling point, and place a part of the object in the hot water for a moment and remove. Check for the characteristic smell. The Hot Needle Test: This test can be very distructive if not done carefully, and a person can get burned, so be careful! Heat a sewing needle to the point that it is red hot. Choose an out of the way spot on the item and touch the needle for only a second to the surface. The bakelite smell should be detectable. It is also thought that by observing whether or not the needle penetrates the surface of the object can be used to determine if the object is bakelite. In theory, bakelite should not be effected by heat, so the needle should not melt at the point it touches the surface.<hr></blockquote> __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-13-2003, 11:20 AM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Here is a pair of Black bakelite grips that appear to have been original that gaveled for only $76.01... quite a disparity in what these grips go for... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...item=753161384 __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-13-2003, 04:20 PM	#11
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	You guys are right. The photos were lousy, but at high magnification it was "possible" that the the shiny spots could contain a threaded hole... Perhaps the buyer is a forum member and can tell us... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-05-2003, 09:39 PM	#2
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Gavel down at $ 160.00 for these BW grips... Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

01-05-2003, 11:24 PM	#3
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Pete, now the real question. Are they Legit WWII Luger Grips? I asked the seller to provide photos of the threaded holes on the backside of each grip. No response!!!! I have seen fake grips that have the correct outside appearance and even holes on the backside. They, however are not threaded. I'm sure they will get around to it some day soon. I hope they are real for the buyer's sake!! [img]confused.gif[/img]

01-06-2003, 02:30 AM	#4
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	Frank, I have a pair of the ugliest, oiliest, shiniest fake BW grips you have ever seen. The holes on the backside are threaded, and they have the fine scribe line between the grip outlines and the diamond checkering. These were not even marketed to me as originals, I just needed cheap pair of grips quick one day and they happened to be on the table. Those folks are way ahead of us. --Dwight

01-06-2003, 08:34 AM	#5
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Dwight, the only saving visual, besides the non-threaded holes were the air holes (bubbles) all over the back surface. If the fakers fix those problem. we are going to have a difficult time telling the difference, at least in photos. The only other way I can think of, is with a chemical analysis (really costly) [img]mad.gif[/img]

01-06-2003, 10:28 AM	#6
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by Frank: <strong>The only other way I can think of, is with a chemical analysis (really costly)</strong><hr></blockquote> I would guess that a sample of bakelite and a sample of plastic would burn differently...?? --Dwight

01-13-2003, 01:39 PM	#9
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Hey John, I saw those grips on ebay and they look fake to me. I don't see anything that appears to be threaded holes on the back side!! Only shiny bottom circles!! <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" />

01-13-2003, 02:12 PM	#10
tracyp User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Peoples Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 391 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	They look fake to me. One of the grips has 3 holes. I would need better pictures, but the coloring doesn't look right.