"GERMANY" Marked Magazine

Mike B · 12-06-2008, 11:24 PM

Greetings and Happy Holidays to all,
Can someone give me a definitive answer about when "GERMANY" marked mags were first used? I am of the opinion they were first used in the Weimer era, but I have seen a few '06 models with the magazine. Could a 1906 Commercial or an '08 Commercial have been manufactured with such a mag?

Mike

lugerholsterrepair · 12-07-2008, 12:18 AM

Mike, This could be an interesting discussion. I think it would have to be pinned down by researching German proof or export laws. Certainly the Weimar period is where we are most used to seeing it... but was it required on pistols or magazines exported to English speaking countries...before WW1? I can't say but would like to know as well.

Jerry Burney

Vlim · 12-07-2008, 03:42 AM

The country marking was not the result of European laws but of US laws

It has been in use, including on English pottery, for example, since the late 1800s.

rolandtg · 12-07-2008, 10:18 AM

Those English clay magazines are really prone to breakage.

Vlim · 12-07-2008, 10:34 AM

Roland, that's why they were later loaded with porcelain FMJ round with a soft sand core

lugerholsterrepair · 12-07-2008, 10:47 AM

Gerben says..

The country marking was not the result of European laws but of US laws.

OK..Does anyone know when a US law was passed requiring an import mark of a country of origin on Pistols?
This would answer Mike's question and establish the earliest one would see a Germany marked Luger.
Although not necessarily. If a 1900 made pistol were imported in 1929 it would get the Germany stamp?
So there might NOT be a way to establish it? Except to say the law was passed in 1920 then we would know all imports after 1920 were stamped?

Jerry Burney

Vlim · 12-07-2008, 11:06 AM

Jerry,

I think the search for the law should be broadened somewhat to include goods imported into the USA. The Tariff Act of 1930 is a good starting point, I guess. This law requires imported goods to be marked with the country of origin (in English).

To make it more challenging, an article does not have to be marked if:
"The article was produced more than 20 years prior to its importation into the United States;".

The Tariff Act of 1930 was preceeded by the McKinley Tariff act of 1890. This also required the country of origin to be placed on imported goods. In 1914, the law was changed requiring 'Made in' to be added to the text.

So now it really gets complicated:

1890 - 1914 'Germany'
1914 - 1930 'Made in Germany'
1930 - present 'Germany, Made In Germany, Product of Germany, etc...', except when the product was made more than 20 years ago.

Lugerdoc · 12-07-2008, 12:26 PM

Based on what I remember from my reading, the country of origin was required to be marked on most imported goods in 1890 and then changed to "made in ----" in 1923. I have a theory that only those mags that were imported separately from guns, required the "Germany" stamp, as if brought in as part of a pistol, the pistol would be marked. So according to my "theory" any 'Germany' or 'made in Germany" marked mag is a replacement. TH

lugerholsterrepair · 12-07-2008, 01:36 PM

Gerben, One sees few "Made In Germany markings on Weimar items? " Rather just "Germany"?
I have always associated Made In German to be late, almost modern in connotation.
I have what I know to be WW1 items that must have been imported during Weimar with just Germany markings.
Interesting....

Jerry Burney

Mike B · 12-07-2008, 02:45 PM

To add to the discussion and add a bit of interest, please consider this: I have a 1906 9mm American Eagle that is probably a 98% pistol. It has all the right markings and telltale signs that it is 100% right. But, no "GERMANY" on the forward part of the frame AND the extractor is not marked with LOADED, but has the German word "GELADEN". I think it was sold in Europe and never commercially imported into the US. No GERMANY mag, but it does has a Cal 9mm magazine.
Mike

MFC · 12-08-2008, 12:12 AM

It would be telling to know how the extra mags were marked or not marked in cased sets. Unforunately, I don't have one to examine.

Vlim · 12-08-2008, 01:31 PM

It is safe to assume that between 1914 and 1921 the import of German goods was not very common due to this war-thing that went on between 1914 and 1918, so it's not illogical to see a huge gap between the 1914 legislation change and the appearance of markings on guns imported from Germany in the 1920s, I guess.

12-06-2008, 11:24 PM	#1
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	"GERMANY" Marked Magazine Greetings and Happy Holidays to all, Can someone give me a definitive answer about when "GERMANY" marked mags were first used? I am of the opinion they were first used in the Weimer era, but I have seen a few '06 models with the magazine. Could a 1906 Commercial or an '08 Commercial have been manufactured with such a mag? Mike

12-07-2008, 12:18 AM	#2
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Mike, This could be an interesting discussion. I think it would have to be pinned down by researching German proof or export laws. Certainly the Weimar period is where we are most used to seeing it... but was it required on pistols or magazines exported to English speaking countries...before WW1? I can't say but would like to know as well. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

12-07-2008, 10:47 AM	#6
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Gerben says.. The country marking was not the result of European laws but of US laws. OK..Does anyone know when a US law was passed requiring an import mark of a country of origin on Pistols? This would answer Mike's question and establish the earliest one would see a Germany marked Luger. Although not necessarily. If a 1900 made pistol were imported in 1929 it would get the Germany stamp? So there might NOT be a way to establish it? Except to say the law was passed in 1920 then we would know all imports after 1920 were stamped? Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

12-07-2008, 12:26 PM	#8
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Based on what I remember from my reading, the country of origin was required to be marked on most imported goods in 1890 and then changed to "made in ----" in 1923. I have a theory that only those mags that were imported separately from guns, required the "Germany" stamp, as if brought in as part of a pistol, the pistol would be marked. So according to my "theory" any 'Germany' or 'made in Germany" marked mag is a replacement. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

12-07-2008, 01:36 PM	#9
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Gerben, One sees few "Made In Germany markings on Weimar items? " Rather just "Germany"? I have always associated Made In German to be late, almost modern in connotation. I have what I know to be WW1 items that must have been imported during Weimar with just Germany markings. Interesting.... Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

12-07-2008, 03:42 AM	#3
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	The country marking was not the result of European laws but of US laws It has been in use, including on English pottery, for example, since the late 1800s.

12-07-2008, 10:18 AM	#4
rolandtg User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 471 Thanks: 361 Thanked 254 Times in 111 Posts	Those English clay magazines are really prone to breakage.

12-07-2008, 10:34 AM	#5
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	Roland, that's why they were later loaded with porcelain FMJ round with a soft sand core

12-07-2008, 11:06 AM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	Jerry, I think the search for the law should be broadened somewhat to include goods imported into the USA. The Tariff Act of 1930 is a good starting point, I guess. This law requires imported goods to be marked with the country of origin (in English). To make it more challenging, an article does not have to be marked if: "The article was produced more than 20 years prior to its importation into the United States;". The Tariff Act of 1930 was preceeded by the McKinley Tariff act of 1890. This also required the country of origin to be placed on imported goods. In 1914, the law was changed requiring 'Made in' to be added to the text. So now it really gets complicated: 1890 - 1914 'Germany' 1914 - 1930 'Made in Germany' 1930 - present 'Germany, Made In Germany, Product of Germany, etc...', except when the product was made more than 20 years ago.

12-07-2008, 02:45 PM	#10
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	To add to the discussion and add a bit of interest, please consider this: I have a 1906 9mm American Eagle that is probably a 98% pistol. It has all the right markings and telltale signs that it is 100% right. But, no "GERMANY" on the forward part of the frame AND the extractor is not marked with LOADED, but has the German word "GELADEN". I think it was sold in Europe and never commercially imported into the US. No GERMANY mag, but it does has a Cal 9mm magazine. Mike

12-08-2008, 12:12 AM	#11
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	It would be telling to know how the extra mags were marked or not marked in cased sets. Unforunately, I don't have one to examine. __________________ Mike C.

12-08-2008, 01:31 PM	#12
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	It is safe to assume that between 1914 and 1921 the import of German goods was not very common due to this war-thing that went on between 1914 and 1918, so it's not illogical to see a huge gap between the 1914 legislation change and the appearance of markings on guns imported from Germany in the 1920s, I guess.