Considering 1916 Erfurt?

ripcord810 · 04-15-2012, 12:27 PM

After much reading I have found I still have a long way to go before I will be comfortable with my knowledge of Lugers, so for the time being I will defer to those more knowledgeable than myself. I have found a 1916 Erfurt, including holster that I am considering buying and wanted some thoughts as far as orignality and price before I purchase. He is asking $1700.

sheepherder · 04-15-2012, 12:50 PM

I'm looking at a close-up of both sides of the chamber area; the edges appear 'rounded', as though it had been heavily buffed some time ago...and the proofs on the right side look buffed as well...to these old eyes...

Ron Wood · 04-15-2012, 12:50 PM

I deleted my prior post because I misread the price as $700 not $1700 and was advising instant purchase...dumb mistake.

Having said that, if the gun is all matching and the holster is original (not a repro) the price would not be out of line if it is original finish. Postino's observation about the buffing is valid, and if it has been refinished the price is questionable.

An aside note: The right end of the magazine catch has a circular mark on it that is unusual (to me). Has anyone seen anything like this on an Erfurt before?

lugerholsterrepair · 04-15-2012, 02:44 PM

from the corner of the magazine pouch I can tell the holster is original. Have any better photo's?

alanint · 04-15-2012, 02:53 PM

This is a poorly buffed and reblued gun. The front receiver scallops have been almost totally obliterated!. It is not possible from the photos supplied to tell if the strawed parts are actually blued, but this is certainly not a $1,700 dollar rig. Unless much better photos are available, I would not invest in this pistol.

Norme · 04-15-2012, 03:46 PM

I wouldn't pass judgement on this gun without better photos, but it's worth noting that 1916 Erfurts had much bigger, and less well defined scalloped areas (1st photo), than say, 1916 DWMs (2nd photo). Regards, Norm

CJS57 · 04-15-2012, 07:32 PM

The OP's Erfurt has inconsistent blue wear. The top half is very blue, the bottom is almost white. Not good! Matching wear is a good sign.

DavidJayUden · 04-15-2012, 08:04 PM

I too would like more photos, but am not ready to jump onto the re-blued bandwagon. The markings are very sharp. Remember that Erfurts did not get the spiffy finish treatment that DWM's did, especially that late in the war. It just looks like an old war-horse to me. The finish loss, lower plus side plate vs. upper, is interesting.
Still $1700 seems like absolutely last-man-out top dollar and I think that you can do better, like maybe right here. Post a Wanted ad and see what comes up. It costs nothing.
dju

lugersrkewl · 04-15-2012, 08:43 PM

An aside note: The right end of the magazine catch has a circular mark on it that is unusual (to me). Has anyone seen anything like this on an Erfurt before?[/QUOTE]

I dont see any others with a ring.not a magazine safety component?

sheepherder · 04-15-2012, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

An aside note: The right end of the magazine catch has a circular mark on it that is unusual (to me). Has anyone seen anything like this on an Erfurt before?

If you mean the 'ring' that looks like the mag catch is two pieces, I've never seen anything like it...

wlyon · 04-15-2012, 09:13 PM

From the present pictures I would not say this has been buffed or reblued. The scalloped area on the receiver is typical Erfurt. I have had 4 Erfurt lugers and this area was different on all of them. It is still a heavily used luger and even with the holster ? is not up to the $1700 asking price. Bill

Ron Wood · 04-15-2012, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

...looks like the mag catch is two pieces...

A two piece catch was my impression also.

sheepherder · 04-15-2012, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

A two piece catch was my impression also.

That is odd, isn't it?...

I wonder...All 3 of my Luger mag catches are ground smooth on that end...Could this be what is left of a 'stub' used to hold the catch while machining, then cut off & ground flat???

Someone mentioned that Erfurts were more crudely machined...They may have left just a bit of the stub...(If there ever was a stub)...

Closeup of other pic -

lugersrkewl · 04-15-2012, 11:07 PM

maybe someone used something to try and tap it out

MFC · 04-16-2012, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugersrkewl

maybe someone used something to try and tap it out

If so, he was tapping on the wrong side.

fred p · 04-16-2012, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFC

If so, he was tapping on the wrong side.

stranger things have happened. A nail set would leave an impression like that BUT the odds of getting a perfectly centered strike like this one is unlikely. The nub theory makes more sense to me.

padredan · 04-17-2012, 12:59 PM

Kinda wierd mag catch, but who knows. at 1700.00 long wheel base tens, i think that is a bit steep for this one.

cirelaw · 04-17-2012, 06:07 PM

If you want a closeup for comparison, The prewar are sweet!

Thor · 04-17-2012, 06:14 PM

I agree with Bill on the reciever scallop, Erfurts are much larger than DWMs. As a side note the right frame rails on Erfurts are flatter and have less bevelled edge than do DWMS. The mismatch finish does look odd.

cirelaw · 04-17-2012, 06:47 PM

Ted they have everything marked. Probobly a pain for you!

04-15-2012, 12:27 PM	#1
ripcord810 User Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 139 Thanks: 146 Thanked 23 Times in 16 Posts	Considering 1916 Erfurt? After much reading I have found I still have a long way to go before I will be comfortable with my knowledge of Lugers, so for the time being I will defer to those more knowledgeable than myself. I have found a 1916 Erfurt, including holster that I am considering buying and wanted some thoughts as far as orignality and price before I purchase. He is asking $1700. Attached Thumbnails

04-15-2012, 12:50 PM	#2
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	I'm looking at a close-up of both sides of the chamber area; the edges appear 'rounded', as though it had been heavily buffed some time ago...and the proofs on the right side look buffed as well...to these old eyes... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

04-15-2012, 12:50 PM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	I deleted my prior post because I misread the price as $700 not $1700 and was advising instant purchase...dumb mistake. Having said that, if the gun is all matching and the holster is original (not a repro) the price would not be out of line if it is original finish. Postino's observation about the buffing is valid, and if it has been refinished the price is questionable. An aside note: The right end of the magazine catch has a circular mark on it that is unusual (to me). Has anyone seen anything like this on an Erfurt before? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

04-15-2012, 02:44 PM	#4
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,933 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	from the corner of the magazine pouch I can tell the holster is original. Have any better photo's? __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

04-15-2012, 03:46 PM	#6
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	I wouldn't pass judgement on this gun without better photos, but it's worth noting that 1916 Erfurts had much bigger, and less well defined scalloped areas (1st photo), than say, 1916 DWMs (2nd photo). Regards, Norm Attached Thumbnails

04-15-2012, 02:53 PM	#5
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	This is a poorly buffed and reblued gun. The front receiver scallops have been almost totally obliterated!. It is not possible from the photos supplied to tell if the strawed parts are actually blued, but this is certainly not a $1,700 dollar rig. Unless much better photos are available, I would not invest in this pistol.

04-15-2012, 07:32 PM	#7
CJS57 User Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 224 Thanks: 0 Thanked 81 Times in 41 Posts	The OP's Erfurt has inconsistent blue wear. The top half is very blue, the bottom is almost white. Not good! Matching wear is a good sign.

04-15-2012, 08:04 PM	#8
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I too would like more photos, but am not ready to jump onto the re-blued bandwagon. The markings are very sharp. Remember that Erfurts did not get the spiffy finish treatment that DWM's did, especially that late in the war. It just looks like an old war-horse to me. The finish loss, lower plus side plate vs. upper, is interesting. Still $1700 seems like absolutely last-man-out top dollar and I think that you can do better, like maybe right here. Post a Wanted ad and see what comes up. It costs nothing. dju

04-15-2012, 08:43 PM	#9
lugersrkewl Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ussr Posts: 425 Thanks: 198 Thanked 75 Times in 58 Posts	An aside note: The right end of the magazine catch has a circular mark on it that is unusual (to me). Has anyone seen anything like this on an Erfurt before?[/QUOTE] I dont see any others with a ring.not a magazine safety component? Attached Images

04-15-2012, 09:13 PM	#11
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,636 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,556 Times in 954 Posts	From the present pictures I would not say this has been buffed or reblued. The scalloped area on the receiver is typical Erfurt. I have had 4 Erfurt lugers and this area was different on all of them. It is still a heavily used luger and even with the holster ? is not up to the $1700 asking price. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

04-15-2012, 11:07 PM	#14
lugersrkewl Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ussr Posts: 425 Thanks: 198 Thanked 75 Times in 58 Posts	maybe someone used something to try and tap it out

04-17-2012, 12:59 PM	#17
padredan User Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: louisiana Now, but from the Rebublic of Texas Posts: 937 Thanks: 429 Thanked 316 Times in 182 Posts	Kinda wierd mag catch, but who knows. at 1700.00 long wheel base tens, i think that is a bit steep for this one. __________________ In this world nothing is free, except the grace of God

04-17-2012, 06:07 PM	#18
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Heres my 1913 erfurt #9502 If you want a closeup for comparison, The prewar are sweet! Attached Thumbnails

04-17-2012, 06:14 PM	#19
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	I agree with Bill on the reciever scallop, Erfurts are much larger than DWMs. As a side note the right frame rails on Erfurts are flatter and have less bevelled edge than do DWMS. The mismatch finish does look odd. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

04-17-2012, 06:47 PM	#20
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Ted they have everything marked. Probobly a pain for you!