LugerForum Discussion Forums my profile | register | faq | search
upload photo | donate | calendar

Go Back   LugerForum Discussion Forums > General Discussion Forums > Gun Show Announcements & Discussion

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 02-11-2019, 09:00 AM   #1
jeb111
Patron
LugerForum
Patron
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: wyoming
Posts: 259
Thanks: 602
Thanked 298 Times in 122 Posts
Default studying books and forum pays off

Went to a gun show this weekend in MT. It was small but did find a table w/ about 12 Lugers. Seller gave me his card, Luger collector and WW1 WW2 militaria. Had a nice 1906 American Eagle with visible matching #'s incorrect mag, and a nice Erfurt w/ all matching #'s incl, mag. Question, is it unreasonable to ask to confirm matching #'s by disassembling pistol? Seller said it could "mess up gun". I had a pocket full of cash so I was a serious buyer. Main reason for post is that all the research from this forum and taking the advice of reading books really paid off as I knew what to look for and what I was looking at. Seller also had a Stoeger artillery but I didn't bother looking too closely at it as the seller didn't seem to keen on showing it.
Jim
jeb111 is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 4 members says Thank You to jeb111 for your post:
Unread 02-11-2019, 09:12 AM   #2
mikedavid
Patron
LugerForum
Patron
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lockport, Illinois
Posts: 23
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 4 Posts
Default

By him not wanting to disassemble it so you can check to see if it's all matching, would send off a red flag to me!
__________________
Mike D
mikedavid is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 7 members says Thank You to mikedavid for your post:
Unread 02-11-2019, 09:28 AM   #3
Neil Young
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
Neil Young's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Scottsboro, Alabama
Posts: 534
Thanks: 529
Thanked 428 Times in 161 Posts
Default

If he was a Luger collector, he certainly knows how to disassemble the pistol and certainly knows that it will not "mess up the gun". So, in my book, the least he did was lie to you and probably tried to pass off a mismatched Luger for a collector price. Smile and walk away--no, run away.
__________________
Neil Sometimes it takes me all day to get nothing done.
Neil Young is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 8 members says Thank You to Neil Young for your post:
Unread 02-11-2019, 10:05 AM   #4
DavidJayUden
Patron
LugerForum
Patron
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,047
Thanks: 578
Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts
Default

I would think that an honest and serious seller would be willing to prove that it is truly matching in order to get a sale. How about, "Here's my money, show me it is matching in and out and you have a sale".
I know I'd be all over that one...
We just have to bear in mind all the non-serious tire kickers that are drawn to Lugers.
dju
DavidJayUden is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 7 members says Thank You to DavidJayUden for your post:
Unread 02-11-2019, 11:10 AM   #5
wlyon
Lifer 2X
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
wlyon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Somewhere in Montana
Posts: 2,575
Thanks: 3,038
Thanked 2,427 Times in 908 Posts
Default

I will not let people at gun shows disassemble my guns. However if the person is serious I will take them apart and show him/her the numbers. If some one has a table of lugers and will not take them apart I would be very suspicious. Bill
__________________
Bill Lyon
wlyon is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 12 members says Thank You to wlyon for your post:
Unread 02-11-2019, 11:21 AM   #6
Norme
Always A
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
Norme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,401
Thanks: 208
Thanked 2,540 Times in 918 Posts
Default

Checking ALL the numbered parts on an Erfurt could be somewhat time consuming and I can understand why the seller might be reluctant to let you have at it if the show is busy. The following parts can be checked without disassembly:
Frame, Barrel, Receiver, Extractor, Middle toggle, Rear toggle, Side-plate, Sear bar, Safety bar, Take-down lever, Safety lever and Magazine.
Checking the following require disassembly:
"Hidden number" on side-plate, Trigger, Breech-block, Firing pin, Hold-open and both Grips.
Norm
Norme is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 2 members says Thank You to Norme for your post:
Unread 02-11-2019, 11:58 AM   #7
Edward Tinker
Super Moderator
Eternal Lifer
LugerForum
Patron
 
Edward Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North of Spokane, WA
Posts: 15,854
Thanks: 1,912
Thanked 4,415 Times in 2,044 Posts
Default

A tear down will show everything but the grip markings. Not sure how an Erfurt or Simson would be an issue Norm?

Anyway, I have taken down many a luger to show somebody - but I sure prefer them to be more than a tire-kicker - After a few unsuccessful tire kickers, I usually say something like, and after talking a bit, "sure we can take it down and check everything".
.
.

BUT, the line about taking them apart and this could mess them up - I bet they are not HIS but someone else's.
Edward Tinker is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 2 members says Thank You to Edward Tinker for your post:
Unread 02-11-2019, 02:02 PM   #8
lugerholsterrepair
Moderator
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
lugerholsterrepair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Arizona/Colorado
Posts: 7,723
Thanks: 4,646
Thanked 3,002 Times in 1,401 Posts
Default

I won't let just anyone monkey with any Luger I have OR hold a holster. Too many people are just ham fisted knuckleheads with no respect for antiques. You can't tell who is who. I found out years ago if you hand a holster to someone they immediately peer, poke and prod into it like they are looking for a hidden hundred dollar bill. No care taken. So I NEVER hand out a holster to anyone but a trusted collector.



But I agree with the above..the dealer should open up any specific pistol to get a look at the insides. "Here's my money, show me it is matching in and out and you have a sale". sure sounds reasonable to me! Especially on a $2,500+ purchase.
__________________
Jerry Burney
11491 S. Guadalupe Drive

Yuma AZ 85367-6182


lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net

928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round
719 207-3331 (cell)


"For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."
lugerholsterrepair is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 7 members says Thank You to lugerholsterrepair for your post:
Unread 02-11-2019, 02:32 PM   #9
Edward Tinker
Super Moderator
Eternal Lifer
LugerForum
Patron
 
Edward Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North of Spokane, WA
Posts: 15,854
Thanks: 1,912
Thanked 4,415 Times in 2,044 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair View Post
....

But I agree with the above..the dealer should open up any specific pistol to get a look at the insides. "Here's my money, show me it is matching in and out and you have a sale". sure sounds reasonable to me! Especially on a $2,500+ purchase.
Unless the 12 lugers were $499 each and then I would just pull out my credit card and say, do I get a discount for 12?
Edward Tinker is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 2 members says Thank You to Edward Tinker for your post:
Unread 02-11-2019, 02:32 PM   #10
jcoe
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: mt
Posts: 38
Thanks: 13
Thanked 31 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Jim, there are a lot of “private sale” guys here in Montana, quite independent folks, who enjoy a relatively unencumbered sale in most of the state, and will not bother with paper work for an out-of-state buyer. As already noted, purchase of an unexamined P08 is like buying a pig in a poke.
BRegs, John
jcoe is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to jcoe for your post:
Unread 02-12-2019, 09:04 AM   #11
jeb111
Patron
LugerForum
Patron
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: wyoming
Posts: 259
Thanks: 602
Thanked 298 Times in 122 Posts
Default

My main reason for the post was to point out how much researching books and this forum has been beneficial in looking to buy another Luger. I also think looking at lots Lugers in person really is where a guy learns. I was glad to encounter this seller, he was friendly and willing until it seemed that I was somewhat knowledgeable. I never asked or presumed if I could disassemble the pistols and never come off as a know it all but if a guy is asking IMO top dollar for as he said all matching # gun then prove it. I had money, told him I was a serious buyer and wasn't wasting time. He did say he would bring the pistol to an FFL holder in my hometown to sell to me so he offered options to me as an out of stater.

Jim
jeb111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-12-2019, 09:17 AM   #12
mrerick
Super Moderator - Patron
LugerForum
Life Patron
 
mrerick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA
Posts: 3,857
Thanks: 1,349
Thanked 2,999 Times in 1,469 Posts
Default

If someone represents themselves as a "Luger Collector", it's reasonable to assume that they have the ability to disassemble field strip a Luger. To the extent possible, if I were selling a matching Luger, and a serious buyer was ready to make an offer that I would accept, I would be happy to sit down, take out a mat and show the buyer the matching parts I could access.

If a seller was unwilling to do that, I would simply offer them a price for the pistol as a "shooter", and tell them that if they wanted anywhere near to a "collectible Luger" price, I need to see the matching numbers and condition of internal parts.

if you are inexperienced at disassembling firearms, never ask a seller to let you take them apart.
__________________
Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum -
- Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.
mrerick is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 3 members says Thank You to mrerick for your post:
Unread 02-12-2019, 11:55 PM   #13
Big Fish
User
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Bucks Co. Pa. U.S.A.
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts
Default

Forum membership paid off for myself this weekend past, the seller was offering a friends luger.
I told everything I knew about it and showed him a few things and thanked him, went on my way.
A few hours later I bumped into him again but left with pistol in hand this time.

Moral, knowledge and honesty makes a grand deal for both parties. Cheers.
Big Fish is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 4 members says Thank You to Big Fish for your post:
Unread 04-06-2019, 09:20 PM   #14
RDS
User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: NE
Posts: 13
Thanks: 34
Thanked 12 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Another thing to consider. Even if the gun matches you have to check the condition of the firing pin. I worked in the industry back in the late 80s and most of the 90s.It was a time when WWII vets reached retirement age, were moving out of the greater NYC area and heading south. A good number of the guns that they brought into us to sell had broken off firing pin tips or no firing pin. The story was always the same. "I picked this up in the war but when the kids came along my wife made me remove the firing pin and I don't remember where I put it" or "I took the firing pin to work and ground the tip off to keep the wife happy. Sad but true.
RDS is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-07-2019, 12:49 AM   #15
gunnertwo
Patron
LugerForum
Patron
 
gunnertwo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nampa, Idaho
Posts: 547
Thanks: 744
Thanked 816 Times in 310 Posts
Default

True story on the FP. One of my treasures is a S&W Victory that was given to me by a Naval Aviator that was on the USS Bunker Hill when hit by a Kamikaze. He had clipped off the tip of the FP due to the grand kids. A trip to my local 'smith fixed that. He also gave me the USN marked shoulder holster that had his name and squadron - VT-84.

G2
gunnertwo is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 3 members says Thank You to gunnertwo for your post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1998 - 2023, Lugerforum.com